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PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
ON THE SUBJECT OF THE
CONFEDERATION
or THE
BRITISH NORTH AMERICAN PROVINCES,
3rli tdcsslon, 8tl) |i3romu(ial parliament of (Eana^a. PlUniTSU BY ORD£R OF THE liEfe'ISI^ATIIRE.
QUEBEC:
HUNTER, ROSE & CO., PARLIAMENTARY PRINTERS.
1865.
^
>
I ^D EX.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
PROCEEDINGS.
February 3. — Hon. Sir E. P. TACHifi moved that an Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that a measure be sub- mitted to Imperial Parliament, based on certain resolutions, 1.
February 9. — Hon. Mr. Sanborn moved an amendment with reference to the Consti- tution of the Legislative Council, 124.
February 13. — Hon. Mr. Reesor moved that the debate be adjourned for ten days, 162. Negatived by 37 to 19.
February 14. — Hon. Mr. Letellier DE St. Just moved an amendment to Hon. Mr. Sanborn's amendment, that the debate be adjourned until certain infor- mation be laid before the House, 189. Negatived by 38 to 20.
February 16. — House divided on Hon. Mr. Sanborn's amendment, 245. Negatived by 42 to 18.
February 17. — Hon. Mr. CuRRlE moved in amendment to the main motion, that the Jlouse should not assent to the measure without a further manifestation of the public will than has yet been declared, 269. House divided on said amendment; 316. Negatived by 31 to 19.
February 20. — Hon. Mr. Aikins moved an amendment with reference to the Consti- tution of the Legislative Council, 317. A question of order being raised, the Hon. the Speaker ruled the said amend- ment out of order, 318. Hon. Mr. Reesor moved in amendment, that the transmission of the Address should be delayed, until the resolutions should be approved by a direct vote of the electors of the province, 327. A question of order being raised, the Speaker ruled the said amendment to be in order, 328. House divided on said amendment, 333. Negatived by 36 to 19. House divided on main motion, 346. Carried by 45 to 15. Committee appointed to draft an Address. Draft Address reported, agreed to, and ordered to be engrossed. Ordered that an Address be presented to the G-overnor General by the whole House, requesting him to transmit said Address to Her Majesty, 346.
Fehrnary 23. — Tlie House waited on His Excellency with their Address to Her Majesty. His Excellency's reply, 421.
%* The names of the Electoral Divisions represented by elected members are given in Italics. Life
members are distinguished by [L] following the name.
Aikins, Hon. James C. \^Eome'], 154-159,
208, 217, 316-317. Alexander, Hon. George {^Gorel, 80-82,
207-208. Allan, Hon. George W. [Zor^], 115-
118. Armand, Hon. Joseph F. \Alma\ 209-
210. Belleau, Hon. Sir N. F. [L], 180-186,
189, 317. Bennett, Hon. Thomas [^asierrt],206-207. Blair, Hon. A. J. Fergusson \_Brock'], 11,
300.
Blake, Hon. Oliver \_Thames\, 325-826.
BossiS, Hon. J. N. [Z>e La Durantayp'\,'i^^?>.
BouLTON, Hon. George S. [L]. 152-154, 156,
Bureau, Hon. J. O. [Z'e Lorimier'], 189- 193, 309-310, 327, 345.
Campbell, Hon. A., Commissioner of Crown Lands ICataraqui'], 20-24, 45, 156, 159, 160, 161, 175, 178, 202, 223, 272, 281, 290-298, 303, 340, 341, 342, 512.
Christie, Hon. David {Erie-], 212-222, 224, 277, 279.
CuBRiE, Hon. James Q-. [^Niagara'], 45-53,
417519
IV
208-209, 210-212, 218, 269-284, 340,
341, 342, 512. De Beaujeu, Hon. George S. [L], 205,
322-324. Dickson, Hon. Walter H. [L], 284-290,
327. Ferrier, Hod. James [L], 193-198, 233,
276. Flint, Hon. Billa [TrrnQ, 318-322. Gu^VREMONT, Hon. J. ]}. [Saurel^, 313. Hamilton, Hon. John llnkerman'\, 324-
325. Letellier de St. Just, Hon. L. \_Grmid-
ville}, 12, 13, 186-189. Macpherson, Hon. David L. {Savf/eeii'],
125, 149-152, 200, 201, 204, 283. ^IcCrea, Hon. W^alter [Western'], 16 T-
173, 277, 279. McM aster, Hon. William IMidhnd],
229-231. WooRE^HoD. Philip H. [L], 83, 160, 162,
225-229. Olivier, Hon. L. A. \_De LaiiauJibre'],
173-180, 189, 310-316.
Price, Hon. David E. [Laurcntides'], 338-
339. Read, Hon. Rohert [Quinte], 326-327. Reesou, Hon. Davju [Kin^/s'], 158, 161,
162, 163-167, 327, 32:^-333, 339-340. Ross, Hon. John [L], 71-80, 160, 213,
270, 271, 280, 300-301, 327. Ryan, Hon. Thomas IVictorial, 333-338,
340. Sanborn, Hon. John S. [ UV///»(//(9»], 118
-125, 222-225, 24^-245. Seymour, Hon. Benjamin [L], 199-206,
298-300. Simpson, Hon. John [Queen's], 160, 231-
234. Skead, Hon. James [Rideau], 242-244. Speaker, The — Hon. U. J. Tessier,
[Gulj], 208,317,318, 328, 42i. TACUt, Hon. Col. Sir E. P., R.ceiver Gene- ral and Minister of Militia [L], 1-11,
76, 83, 175, 177, 210, 211, 234-242,
333, 342-346. Vidal, Hon. A. [St. Clair], 82-83, 301-
309, 346.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEIklBLY
PROCEEDINGS.
February 3. — Hon. Atty. Gen. Macdonald moved that au Address be presented to Her Ma.jesty, praying that a measure be Hubmitted to Imperial Parliament, based on certain resolutions, 18. Hon. Mr. HoLTON objected that the motion was not in order, inasmuch as the Address should be fouudcd on Resolutions origia- ated in Committee of the Whole, 18. The Speaker ruled that the motion was in order, 19.
March 7. — Hon. Atty. Gen. Macdonald moved the previous question, 703. Hon. Ally. Gen. Cartier having moved the adjournment of the debate till the first eittiug of the House, to-morrow, after routine business, Hon. Mr. Holton moved in amendment that the debate bo adjourned till the 13th instant, and that an Address be presented to the (lovcnior (Jcncral, praying him to cause to be laid before the House, in the meantime, various information relating to the subjects em- braced in the resolutions, 767. Objceticm being t.iken, the Speakeii ruled the amendment out or order, 768. The Sj'EAKEr's dpcision appealed from, 76S.
Sustained on a division of 59 to 20. Hon. Mr. Dorion moved in amendment that the debate be mljourned for one nnnth, or until such time as the people of .the Province should have an opportunity of constitutionally pronouncing their opinion, 769. Objection being taken, the Speaker ruled the amendment out of order, 770. Hon. Mr. C.\RTIER*s motion agreed to, 770. March 10. — Objection having been taken by Hon. Mr. Holton, the Speaker rule<l that the motion for the " previous (|ues- tion" was in order, 893. The Hdusc divided on the motion for the " previous question," 962. Agreed to by 85 to 39. The House divided on the main ntotion.of the Hon. Atty. Gen. Ma("!<on.\H). 962. Agreed to by 91 to 33. March 13. — Hon. Atty. Gen. MAntoN.M.D moved that a ComiLittee bi> appointed to ' draft an address founded on the resolutions. j 9()2. Hon J. 11. Cam IRON moved in 1 amendment an Address to the tJovernor i (jeneral, for an appeal to the people be- fore the resolutions should be submitted I to the Imperial Parliament for their final action, 96J, ()bjeetion being taken, tho
Speaker ruled the amendmdat to be in order, 963. House divided on Mr. Ca- meron's amendment, 1020. Negatived by 84 to 35 Hon. Mr, Holton moved an amendment, that the measure should not go into operation, until approved by the Parliament of Canada, after the next gen- eral election, 1021. House divided on said amendment, 1025. Negatived by 79 to 31. Hon. Joii.v Sandfield Mac- BONALD 7noved an amendment with refer- ence to the subject of Education in Upper Canada, 1025. House divided on said amendment, 1026. Negatived by 95 to 8. Mr. Bourassa moved an amendment that
Alleyn, Hon. Ciias. IQucLec WesQ, 641,
642, 669-673. Archambeault, Mr. Louis [L'Assomp-
11011], 544-545. Beaubien, Dr. J. 0. [Montmagi'i/'j, 351,
550-551. Bellerose, Mr. J. H. iLaval], 476-482. BiGGAR, Mr. James L. lEast Norfhianher-
lanc^], 882-884. BiiANCHRT, Dr. Joseph G. [Levis'], 545-
550. BouRASf"A, Mr. FRANgois {St. Johis],
1026. Bowman. Mr. T. E. [North Waterloo], 803-
>0b. Brown, lion. Ueorge, President of the
Council \_Soath Oxford], 14, 84-115,
412, 450, 474, 476," 663, 661, 709-710,
711, 739. 752, 753, 754, 757, 758, 989-
995. BURWELL, Mr. L. [East Elqin], 417-448. Cameron, Hon. J. H. [Pee/], 14, 662, 716,
962-975,905, 1006. Cameron, Mr. M. C. [North Ontario], 448-
463, 645, 681, 716-719, 714-747, 770,
975-986. Caiit[ER, Hon. Gr. E., Attorney General East
[Montreal East]. 19, 53-62, 407, 408,
111, 412, 452, 5J0, 540, 571, 576, 642,
692, 713-715, 731, 770, 841. 932, 945, 1022. Cartwrigiit, Mr. B. J. [Lennox and
Addinafon], 820-825. Cauciion, Hon, J. [Movtmorcnci/], 15,
371, 393, 554-584, 695-702, 778. Chambers, Mr. F. II. [BrockviUe], 770-
775 Cockburn, Hon. James, Solicitor General
West [ West Northumberland], 810. Cornellier dit Grandchamp^ Sir. Hip-
POLYTE [Jolietfe], 349.
Koman Catholic minority of Upper Canada be placed on same footing as Protestant minority of Lower Canada, 1023. House divided on said amendment, 1027. Negi- tived by 85 to 20. Main motion agreed to on a division and Committee appointed, 1026. Draft Address, reporte.i, 1027. Agreed to and ordered to be engrossed, 1032. Ordered that an Address be pre- sented to the Governor General by the whole House, requesting him to transmit said Address to Her Majesty, 1032. 31arch 14. — The House waited on Ilis E.Kcellency with their Address to Her Majesty. His Excellency's reply, 1032.
Cowan, Mr. James [South Waterloo], 742,
957-958. Denis, Mr. Paul [Beauharnois], 644, 871-
880, 986. DENiVEaviLLB, Mr. C. B. [Three Rivers],
947-952. DoRiON, Hon. A. A. [Ilochdaga:], 15,
245-269, 378, 379 570, 571, 584, 654-
657, 664, 682-695, 731-731, 767, 769,
944-917,986,1021. DoRION, Mr. J. B. E. [Drummond and
Arthabaska], 856-871, 929, 987. DuFRESNE, Mr. Joseph [Montcalm], 554,
608, 922-931, 1017. DuNKiN, Mr. Christopher, [Urome], 19,
482-512, 512-544. EvANTi,REL, Hon. Francois, [Quebec
Counti/], 569, 576, 711-713, 913. Ferguson, Mr. Thos. R. [South Sinicoe],
958-961, 1013-1015. FoRTiER, Mr. MoiSE [Yamaska], 941-943. ' Gagnon, Mr. A. [Charlevoix], 952-953. Galt, Plon. A. T., Minister of l^inancc,
[Sherbrooke], 19, 62-71, 661, 662, 947. Geoffrion, Mr. F^lix [Vercheres], 389,
390, 580, 775-783. GiBBS, Mr. Thomas N. [South Ontario],
668, 810-814, 987-988. Harwoo©, Mr. A. Charti^r de Lotbin-
iere[ Vaudreuil], 825-841. Haultain, Col. Fhederick W. [Peter- borough], 627-648. Holton, Hon. L. H. [Chatcauguoy], 14,
17, 18, 147-148, 394, 408, 411, 419, 440,
475, 660, 661, 664, 704-709, 725, 730-
731, 767, 768, 893, 937-9 11, 994, 996-
997, 1008, 1021. Howland, Hon. W. P. [West York],
766. Huntington, Hon. Lucius S. [She^ord]^
953-957, 1015-1017.
VI
Jackson, Mr. George [_Grei/'\, 884-889,
988. JOLY, Mr. II. G. ILolhinrere'], 346-362,
384, 392, 393, 679, 998-1000. Jones, Mr. D. F. [South Leech], 814-820. Laframboise, lion. Mauhice, [Bar/Ot],
742-744, 841-856. Langevin, Hon. II. L., Solicitor General
East [Dorchester], 362-392, 579, 691,
781. Macdonald, Hon. J. A., Attorney General
West, [Khu/ston], 13, 14, 16, 18, 25-45,
648-650, 658, 665, 703, 705, 725-730,
944, 962, 1000-1007, 1027, 1031. Macdonald, Mr. John, [Toronto West],
760-765, 766. Macdon^\ld, Hon. J. Sandfield [Corn-
7vall], 13, 251, 420, 421, 642, 650-654,
662, 663, 666, 667, 720-725, 734-742,
1008-1013, 1025. MacFarlane, Mr. Robert [/V/7i], 1022-
1.24. Mackenzie, Mr. A.,[Lainhton], 421-134,
738, 767, 1009, 1017-1018, 1025. Mackenzie, Mr. Hope ¥. [North Oxford],
673-681, 1009. Magill, Mr. CiiAS. [Hamilton], 997-998. McConkey, Mr. T. D. [North Simcoe],
889-893. McDoLGALL, Hon. William, Provineial
Secretarv [North LanarJc], 492, 538,
719-720"', 985. McGee, Hon. T. D'Arcy, Minister of Agri- culture [Montreal West], 125-146, 643,
653, 669. McGiVERiN, Mr. W. [Lincoln], 404-475. McKellar, Mr. Archibald [Kent], 765-
766. Morris, Mr. Alexander, [Soiith Lanark],
431-446.
O'Halloran, Mr. James [Missisquoi],
792-799. Paquet, Dr. A. H. [Berfhier], 789-792. Parker, Dr. T. S. [North Weltinjton],
668,936-937, 1018-1020. Perrault, Mr. Josepu F. [Richelieu],
559, 585-626, 926. Pouliot, Mr. J. B. [Temiscouala], 880-
88'' Powell, Mr. W. F. [Carle'on], 715-716. Rankin, Col. Arthur [Essex], 657, 912-
922. RtMlLLARD, Mr. Edouard [Bellechatse],
783-789. Rose, Hon. John [Montreal Centre], 394-
419. Ross, Mr. John J. [C'haviplnin], 882. Ross, Mr. John S. [Dandas], 799-803. Rymal, Mr. Joseph [South Wentworth],
932-936, 993, 1020. Scatcherd, Mr. Tiios [West Middlesex],
747-760. Scoble, Mr. John [ West. El'jin], 852, 906-
912. Shanly, Mr. Walter [South Grenville]
899-906. Smith, Mr. Alexander M. [Toronto
East], 897-899 Speaker, The Hon. Lewis Wallbridge
[South Hastings], 19, 559, 664, 703, 768,
770, 893, 963, 1032.
StIRTON, Mr.DAVID[>S'oHM Wellinytou],~i?>^. Taschere.\u, -Mr. Henri E [iSeaHce], 893-
897. Wallbridge, Mr. T. C. [North Hastings],
419, 657-660, 672. Walsh, Mr. Aquila [Norfolk:], 805-810. Webb, Mr. William H. [Richmond and Wolfed], 931-932.
Vll
THE LEGISLATURE OF CANADA,
3rd Session, 8th Parliament, 1865,
GOVERNOR GENERAL.
His Excellency The Right Honorable Charles Stanley, Viscount Monck, Baron MoNCK of Ballytrainmon, in the County of "Wexford, Governor General of British North America, and Captain General and Governor in Chief in and over the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, New Brunsicick, and the Island of Prince Edward, and Vice Admiral of the same, tDc, &c., dx.
Hon. Hon. Hon. Hon. Hon. Hon. Hon. Hon. Hon. Hon. Hon. Hon.
THE MINISTRY.
Sir Etienne Pascal Tachi6, Receiver General, Minister of Militia, and Premier.
John Alexander Macdonald, Attorney General \Yest.
George Etienne Cartier, Attorney General East.
Alexander Tilloch Galt, Minister of Finance.
Alexander Campbell, Commissioner of Crown Lands.
Thomas D'Arcy McGee, Minister of Agriculture and Statistics.
Jean Charles Chapais, Commissioner of Public Worhs. »
George Brown, President Executive Council.
William JMcDougall, Provincial Secretary.
William Pearce Howland, Postmaster General.
Hector Louis Langevin, Solicitor General East.
James Cockburn, Solicitor General West.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The Honorable Ulric J. Tessier, Speaher.
|
LIFE members. |
||
|
Residences. |
Names of Members. |
Residences. |
|
Kingston Hon |
. Jolin Hamilton. |
Coteaudu Lac .B.0 |
|
PhiLipsburg . " |
Philip H. Moore. |
Toronto " |
|
London, C. W " |
George J. Goodhue. |
Hamilton ... " |
|
Brockville ... " |
James Morris. |
Quebec '' |
|
Toronto " |
James Gordon. |
Quebec " |
|
Montreal " |
James Ferrier. |
Montreal " |
|
Perth ''• |
Roderick Matheson. |
Port Hope ... " |
|
Cobourg " |
George S. Boulton. |
Sorel " |
|
Montmagny . . " |
Sir Elienne P. Tach6. |
Cobourg " |
|
Montreal .... " |
James Leslie. |
Niagara " |
|
Montreal " |
Frederick A. Quesnel. |
Names of Members.
. Hou- George Saveuse de Beaujeu. John Ross. Samuel Mills. Louis Panel. Sir Narcisse F. Belleau. Charles Wilson. Benjamin Seymour. David M. Armstrong. Ebenezer Perry. Walter H. Dickson.
elected members.
Electoral Divisions. Names of Members. Electoral Divisions.
Alma Hon.
Bathurst <'
Bedford "
Brock ''
Burlington "
Cataraqui ''
De La Durantaye "
De Lanaudiere. .. '^
Joseph F, Armand. James Shaw. A. B. Foster. A. J. Fergusson Blair. Harcourt Burland Bull. Alexander Campbell. Joseph Noel Boss6. L. A. Olivier.
De Lormier Hon,
De Le Valliere. . . "
De Salaberry .... "
! Eastern "
Ene "
Gore '•'
Grandville "
Gulf "
Names of Members.
J. 0. Bureau. J.-Bte. G. Proulx. Louis Renaud. Thomas Bennett. David Christie. George Alexander. Luc Letellier de St. Just. Ulric Joseph Tessier.
Vlll
LEGISLATIVE COVNCIL.— Conchuhd.
ELECTED MEMBERS.
Electoral Divisions.
Home Hon
Jnkerman "
Kennebec "
King's "
La Salle ..... "
Laurentides "
Laiizon "
Malahidc "
Midland.. "
Millelsles "
Montarville ".
Neti'castle "
Niagara "
Queen's "
Quinte <'
iiepentigny "
Names of Members.
James C. Aikins. John Hamilton. Charles Cormier. David Reesor. Antoine J. Duchesnay. David Edward Price. Elz6arH. J. Duchesnay E. Leonard. Wm. McMaster. L6andre Dumouchel. Louis Lacoste. Asa A. liurnham. James George Currie. John Simpson. Robert Read. P. Urjjel Archambault.
Electoral Divisions.
Rideau Hon.
Rigaud "
Rougemont "
Saugeen "
Saurel "
Shawenegan "
Stadacona "
St. Clair "
iS7. Laivrence "
Tecumsetk "
Thames "
Trent "
Victoria '*
Wellington "
Western "
York "
Names of Members.
James Skead. Eust. Prud'homme, Jr. William Henry Chaffers David L. Macpherson. Jean Bte. Gu6vremont. Charles Malhiot. Jean Elie Gin[»ra3. Ale.xander Vidal. George Crawfoi-d. Donald McDonald. Oliver Blake. Billa Flint. Thomas Ryan. John Sewell Sanborn. Walter McCrea. George William Allan.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. The Honorable Lewis Wallbridge, Speaher.
MEMBERS.
Constituencies. Names of Members.
Argenteuit Hon. John J. C.Abbott.
Bdgot Hon. M. Lafraniboise.
Beauce Henri E. Taschereau.
Jieauharnois Paul Denis.
liellechasse -. . . .Edouard R^millard.
Berthier Anselme H. Paquet.
Bonaventure Theodore Robitaille.
Brant (East Riding). John Young Down. Brant ( West Riding). . .Edmund Burke Wood.
Brockville {Toton.) Fitzwm. H. Chambers.
Brome Chri-stopher Dunkin.
Curleton William Fred. Powell.
„, . , i Charles Boucher do
Ghamhly j Boucherviile.
Ckavvplain John Jones Ross.
C'harlevoi.v. Adoljihe Gugnon.
Chateau giiay Hon. LutliorH. Hulton.
Chicouthni ^- SaguenayVmrie A. Trcmblay.
Conijjtun John Henry Pope.
Cornwall (Town) Hon. J. S. Macdonald.
Dorchester Hon. H. L. Langevin.
Drum'd iSf Artkabasku .Jean Bte. EricDorion.
Dundai John Sylvester Roks
Ditrltnm ( East Riding)John J- hutcr Smith Durhani (West Ridi7ig)\li;ury Munro. infill (East /^'r/Zn,'/.). . Lconidas Burwell. lU^^in (West Riding.) . .AuUu Scobli<.
Esftci' Arthur Rankin.
FruntendC William Ferguson.
(iiispc .lolin liC Boulillior.
iHeusnirnj Doniild A. Macdonald.
iirenrille(Soulli Riding)\\ n\Uv Shanly.
drey (ieorge JackKon.
Haldimand David Thompson.
Consiitucncies. Names of Members.
Halton John White.
Hamilton (City.) Charles Magill.
Hastings (North Riding)Thon\ii3 C. Wallbridge.
Hastings [South Riding}E.oa. Lewis Wallbridge.
Hochelaga .Hon. Antoine .\.Dorion.
Huntingdon Robert B. Somervillc.
Huron and Bruce James Dickson.
Iberville .\le.\andre Dufresne.
Jacques Cartier (iuillaume (J. (Jaucher,
Joliettc Hip.C. dit Grandchamp.
Kamouraska Hon. Jean C. Chapais.
Kent Archibald McKellar.
Kingston Hon. J. A. Macdonald.
Lambton Alexander ^^ackenzie.
Lanark (North Riding)Hou. Win. Mcl^ouL^ali.
Lanark (South y^"(/i'?i^.).\lo.\andor .Morris.
Laprairic AltVcd Pinsonneault,
L'Assoniptioii liinii.-? .■Xiclmmbeault,
Lariil loseph H. Iklleroso.
Leeds and (ireenville ) ,1 • t^ „ .»- .. ,,... . > I'rancis Jones. (North Riding.). . . )
Leeds (South Riding ). .David Ford Jones.
Lennox and /l</</i»o'<on. Richard J. Cartwrighf.
Lins Jort. (Jodcric Blanchet.
Lincoln. William McGivcrin.
L' Islet Louis B. Caron.
London (City.) Hon. John Carling.
Lotbiniirc Henri (lustave Joly.
Maslcijionge MoVso Houde.
Megantic George Irvine.
Middlrse.r (E. Hiding.)Crov.\A\ Wiliiun.
Miitdlese.r (H'. l{iding.)'l'\\oiiu\^ Scaliherd.
Missisi/uoi Juuies G'Halloraii.
Montcalm Joseph Dufresnc
IX
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY— Concluded.
Constituencies. Names of Members.
Montmagny Jos. Octave Beaubien.
Montmorency .Hon. Joseph Cauchon.
Montreal {City) Centre. 'Ron. John Rose.
'< <' £7asi..Hon. Geo. E. Cartier.
" '< West . .Hon. T. D'Arcy McGee.
Napierville S. Coupal dit La Reine.
Niagara {Town.) Angus Morrison.
Hicolet Joseph Gaudet
Norfolk Aquila Walsh.
^^'^Z'y^^. ..^^- \ '''^'' '-''" ^'''''''
Northumberland ( W^. j 3 j^^^^ Cockburn.
Kiamg.) )
Ontario {North Riding) . Matthew C. Cameron. Ontario (South Riding).Thos. Nicholson Gibbs.
Ottawa {City) Joseph Merrill Currier.
Ottawa {County) Alonzo Wright.
Oaf or d {North Riding). B.o])e F, McKenzie, Oxford (South Riding). Ron. George Brown-
Peel Hon. John H. Cameron.
Perth . . ■ Robert Macfarlane.
Peterborough Fred. Wm. Haultain.
Pontiac John Poupore,
Portneuf Jean Docile Brousseau.
Prescott Thomas Higginsou.
Prince Edward Walter Ross.
Quebec {City) East Pierre Gabriel Huot.
'< " Centre . .Hon. I. Thibaudeau.
" " West Hon. Charles Alleyn.
Quebec { County) Hon. F. Evanturel.
Renfrew Robert Maclntyre.
Richmond and Wolfe. . .William Hoste Webb
Richelieu Joseph F. Perrault.
Rimouski George Sylvain,
Constituencies- Name» of Members.
Rouville Joseph N. Poulin.
Russell Robert Bell.
St. Hyacinthe R^mi Raymond.
St. Johns Fran9ois Bourassa.
St. Maurice Charles Lajoie,
Shefford Hon. L. S. Huntington.
Sherbrooke {Town) Hon Alex. T. Gait.
Simcoe {North Riding) .Thomas D. McConkey. Sivicoe {South Riding). Thomas R. Ferguson.
Soulanges William Duckett.
Stanstead Albert Knight.
Stormont Samuel Ault.
Temiscouat a Jean Baptiste Pouliot.
Terrebonne Louis Labreche-Viger.
Three Rivers {City) Chas. B. De Niverville.
Toronto {City) East Alex. Mortimer Smith.
" " West John Macdonald.
Thvo Mountains Jean Baptiste Daoust.
Tr J -I < Antoine Chartier de
Vaudreml | Lotbiniere Harwood.
Vercheres F^lix Geoffrion.
Victoria James Wicks Dunsford
Waterloo {N. Riding) . . Isaac Erb Bowman. Waterloo {S. Riding).. James Cowan.
Welland Thomas Clark Street.
Wellington {N. Riding)Thomas S. Parker. Wellington {S. Riding). David. Stirton. Wenttvorth {N. Riding). WiWiam Notman. Wentworth {S. Riding). SosQ^h Rymal.
Yamaska Mo'ise Fortier-
York {East Riding) . . .Amos Wright.
York {North Riding).. .James Pearson Wella.
York ( West Riding) . . . .Hon. Wm. P. Howlaud.
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
ON THE
SUBJECT OF THt: CONFEDERATION^ OF THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICAN PROVINCES.
Third Session^ Eighth Provincial Parliament of Canada^ in the Twenty-eighth year of the Reign of Her Majesty Queen Victoria.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL,
an
Friday, February 3, 1865.
Hon. Sir E. P. TACH^ moved, '' That humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that She may be graciously pleased to cause a measure to be submitted to the Imperial Parliament for the purpose of uniting the Colonies of Canada, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, and Prince Edward Island, in one Government, with pro- visions based on the following Resolutions, which were adopted at a Conference of Dele- gates from the said Colonies, held at the city of Quebec, on the 10th of October, 1864 :"
1. The liest interests and present and future prosjDeritj of British North America will be pro- moted by a Federal Union under the Crown of Great Britain, provided such Union can be effect- ed on principles just to the several Provinces.
2. In the Federation of the British North Araerican Provinces, the sj'stem of Government best adapted under existing circumstances to pro- tect the diversified interest of the several Pro- \'inces, and secure efficiency, harmony and per- manency in the working of the Union, would be a General Government, charged with matters of common interest to the whole country j and Local Governments for each of the Canadas, and for the Provinces of Nova Scotia, New Bruns- wick and Prince Edward Island, charged with the control of local matters in their respective sec- tions. Provision being made for the admission into the Union, on equitable terms, of Nevpfound- land, the North-West Territory, British Columbia and Vancouver.
3. In framing a Constitution for the General Government, the Conference, with a view to the perpetuation of our connection with the Mother
2
Country, and the promotion of the best interests of the people of these Provinces, desire to follow the model of the British Constitution, so far as our circumstances will permit.
4. The Executive Authority or Government .shall be vested in the Sovereign of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and be administered according to the well-understood principles of the British Constitution, by the Sovereign personally, or by the Representative of the Sovereign duly authorized.
5. The Sovereign or Representative of the Sovereign shall be Commander-in-Chief of the Land and Naval Militia Forces.
6. There shall be a General Legislature fjor Parliament for the Federated Provinces, com- posed of a Legislative Council and a House of Commons. )
7. For the purpose of forming the Legislative Council, the Feder.itcd Provinces shall be con- sidered as consisting of three divisions : 1st, Upper Canada ; 2nd, Lower Canada j 3rd, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prmce Edward Island; each division with an equal representa- tion in the Legislative Council.
8. Upper Canada shall be represented in the Legislative Council by 24 Members, Lower Cana- da by 24 Members, and the three Maritime Pro- vinces by 24 Members, of which Nova Scotia shall have iO, New Brunswick 10, and Prince Edward Island 4 Members.
9. The Colony of Newfoundland shall be enti tied to enter the prop;)sed Union, with a repre sentation in the Legislative Council of 4 Members.
10. The North- West Territory, British Colum- bia and Vancouver shall be admitted into the Union on such terms and conditions as the Par- liament of the Federated Provinces shall deem equitable, and as shall receive the assent of Her
: Majesty ; and in the case of the Province of Bri- tish Columbia or Vancouver, as shall be agreed to by the Legislature of such Province.
11. The Members of the Legislatire Council
shall be appointed by the Crown under the Great Seal of the Genera! Government, and shall hold oEBc'-' during life : if any Legislative Councillor shiill, for two con-secutive sessions of Parliament, fail to give his attendance in the said Council, his seat shall thereby become vacant.
12. Tb3 Members of the Jjejislative Council shall be British subjects by birth or naturaliza- tion, of the fall a^'e of thirty years, shall possess a continuous real property qualification of four thousand dollars over and above all incumbrances, and shall be and continue worth that sura uver and above their debts and liabilities, but in the ca.se of Newfouudand and Prince Edward Island, the property may be either real or personal.
l;i. If any question shall aise as to the quali- fication of a Legislative Councillor, the same shall be determined by the Council.
14. The first selection of the Members of the Legislative Council shall be made, except as re- gards Prince Edward Island, from the Legislative Councils of th^ various Provinces so far as a sufficient number be found qualified and willing to serve ; such Members shall be appointed by the Crown at the recommendation of the General Executive Govcroment. upon the nomination of the respective Local Governments, and in such nomination due regard shUl be had to the claims of the Members of the Lejrislative Council of the opposition in each Province, so that all political parties may, as neai ly as possible, be fairly repre- sented.
15. The Speaker of the Legislative Council (unless otherwise provided by Pai liament), shall be apoointed by the Crown from iimong the Mem- bers of the Legislative Council, and sh; 11 hold office during pleasure, and shall only be entitled to (\ casting vote on an equality of votes.
16. Each of the twenty-four Legislative Coun- cillors re[ resenting Lower Canada m the Legis- lative Council of the General Legislature shall be appoitited to represent one of the twenty-four Electoral 1 ivisions mentioned in Schedule A of Chapter first of the Consolidated Statutes of Can- ada, and such Councillor shall reside or possess his qualificalion in the Division he is appointed to represent.
17. The I)a3i8 of Representation in the House of Commons shall be Population, as determined by the Official Census every Un years ; and the uamber of .Members at firiit, shall be 194, distiib- ted as follows :
Upper Canada 82
Lower Canada 65
N ova Scotia 19
New Brunswick 15
Newfou ndland 8
Prince I'^dwanl Islr.nd 6
18. Until the Official Censu- of lb71 has been made up, there shall be no ihange in the number of li<*pieseniittives from the several sections.
ly. Iiniuudiately after tliu completion of the Census of 1871, and iminediuloly afier every de- cennial eoniius ihoreafter, th" Keprcsentation from aach 8ecti( n in the llou-te of Cummons shall bo rvadjusted ou the buaib of Population.
20. For the purpose of such readjustments. Lower Canada shall always be assigned sixty-fire Members, and each of the other sections shall, at each readjustment, receive, for the ten years then I'ext succeeding, the number of Members to which it will be entitled on the same ratio of Representation to Populatior as Lo ^er Canada wi'l enjoy according to the Cen-sus last taken by having sixty-five Members.
21. No reduction shall be made in the number of Members returned by any section, unless its pojiulation shall have decreased, relatively to the population of the whole Union, to the extent of five per centum.
22. In computing at each decennial period the number of Members to wh'ch each section is en- titled, no fractional parts .shall be considered, unless when exceeding one-half the number en- titling to a Member, in which case a Member shall be given lor each such fractional part.
23. The Legislature of each Province shall divide such Province into the proper number of constituencies, and define the boundaries of each of them.
24- The Local Legislature of each Province may, from time to time, alter the Electoral Dis- tricts for the purposes of Representation in such Local Legislature, and distribute the Represen- tatives to which the Province is entitled in such Local Legislature, in any manner such Legisla- ture may see fit.
25. The number of Members may at any time be increased by the General Parliament, — regard be- ing had to the proportionate riijhts then e.xisting.
26. Until provisions are made by the General Parliament, all the laws which, at that date of the Proclamation constituting the Union, are in force in the Provinces respectively, relating to the qualification and disqualification of any per- son to be elected, or to sit or vote as a Member of the Assembly in the said Provinces respective- ly I and relating to the qualification or disqualifi- cation of voters and to the oaths to be taken by voters, and to Returning Officers and their pow- eis and duties, — and relating to the proceedings at Elections, — .nnd to the period during wliich such elections may be continued — and relaiiug to the Trial of Controverted Elections, and the proceedings incident thereto. — and relating to the vacating of seats of Members, imd to the issuing and execution of new Writs, in case of any seat being vacated otherwise than by a dissolution — shall respectively apply to elections of Members to serve in the House of Commons, for places situate in those Provinces respectively.
27. Every House of Commons shall continue for five years from the day of the return of the writs choosing the same, and no longer ; subject, nevertheless, to be sooner prorogued or dissolved by the Governor.
28. There shall be a Session of the General Parliament once, at least, in every year, so that a period of twelve calendar months shall not in- tervene between the lust sitting of the General i'arliament in one Ses.siou, and the fiiat sitting thereof in the next Seasion.
*
8
29. The General Parliament shall have power to make Laws for the peace, welfare and good govarnment of the Federated Provinces (saving the yoverei?nty of England), and especially laws respecting the following subjects : —
1 . The Public Debt and Property.
2. The regulation of Trade and Commerce.
3. The imposition or regulation of Duties of
Customs on Imports and Exports, — except on Exports of Timber, Logs, Masts, Spars, Deals and Sawn Lum- ber from New Brunswick, and of Coal and other minerals from Nova Scotia.
4. The imposition or regulation of Excise
Duties. .5. The raising of money by all or any other modes or systems of Taxation.
6. The borrowing of money on the Public
Credit.
7. Postal Service.
8. Lines of Steam or other Ships, Eailways,
Canals and other works, connecting any two or more of the Provinces together, or extending beyond the limits of any Province.
9. Lines of Steamships between the Feder-
ated Provinces and other Countries. I 0. Telegraph Communication and the Incor- poration of Telei^raph Companies.
11. All such works as shall, although lying
wholly within any Province, be spe- cially declared by the Acts authoriz- ing them to be for the general ad- vantage.
12. The Census.
13. Militia — Military and Naval Service and
Defence.
14. Beacons, Buoys and Light Houses.
15. Navigation and Shipping.
16. Quarantine.
17. Sea Coast and Inland Fisheries.
18. Ferries between any Province and a For-
eign country, or between any two Provinces.
19. Currency and Coinage.
20. banking — Incorporation of Banks, and
the issue of paper money.
21. Savings Banks.
22. Weights and Measures.
23. Bills of Exchange and Promissory Notes.
24. Interest.
25. Legal Tender.
26. Bankruptcy and Insolvency.
27. Patents of Invention and Discovery
28. Copy Rights.
29. Indians and Lands reserved for the In-
dians.
30. Naturalization and Aliens
31. Marriage and Divorce.
32. The Criminal Law. excepting the Consti-
tution of Courts of Criminal Jurisdic- tioH, but including the procedure in Cri ■ inal matters.
33. Renderiiig uniform all or any of the laws
relative to property and civil rightb in Upper Canada, Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, Newfoundland and Prince Edward sland, and rendering uniform the procedure of all or any of the Courts in these Provinces ; but any statute for this purpose shall have no force or authority in any Province until sanctioned by the Legislature thereof
34. The establishment of a General Court of
Appeal for the Federtited Provinces.
35. Immigration.
36. Agriculture.
37. And generally respecting' all matters of
a general character, not specially and exclusively reserved for the Local Governments and Legislatures. 30, The General Government and Parliament shall have all powers necessary or proper for per- forming the obligations of the Federated Prov- inces, as part of the British Empire, to foreign countries arising under Treaties between Great Britain and such countries.
32. The General Parliament may also, fiom time to time, establish additional Courts, and the General Government may appoint Judges and officers thereof, when the same shall appear ne- cessary or for the public advantage, in order to the due execution of the laws of Parliament.
82. All Courts, Judges, and officers of the several Provinces shall aid, assist and obey ttie General Government in the exercise of its rights and powers, and for such purposes shall be held to be Courts, Judges and officers of the General Government.
33. The General Government shall appoint and pay the Judges of the Superior Courts in each Province, and of the County Courts in Up- per Canada, and Parlianieiit shall fix theii- salaries.
."4. Until the Consolidation of the Laws of Upper Canada, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island, the Jitdges of these Provinces appointed by the Gen- eral Government, shall be selected from their respective Bars.
.35. The Judges of the Courts of Lower Can- ada shall be selected from the Bar of Lower Canada.
36. The Judges of the Court of Admiralty no^" receiving salaries shall be paid by the Gen- eral Government.
37. The Judges of the Superior Courts shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall be removable only on the Address of both Houses of Parliament.
38. For each of the Provinces there shall be an Executive Ofi&cer, styled tie Lieutenant Gov- ernor, who shall be appointed bv the Governor General in Council, under the Great Seal of the Federated Provinces, during pleasure : such pleas- uie not to be exercised before the expiration of the first five years, except for cause : such cause to be communicated in writing to the Lieutenant Governor immediately after the exercise of the pleasure as aforesaid, and also by Message to both Houses of Parliament, within the first week of the first session afterwards.
4
39. The Lientenant Governor of each Prov- ince shall be paid by the General Government.
40. In on(^rtaking to pay the salaries of the Lieutenant Governors, the Confererce does not desire to prejudice the claim of Prince Edward Island upon the Imperial Government fur the amount now paid for the salary of the Lieutenant Governor thereof.
41. The Local Government and Legislature of each Province shall l»e constructed in such man- ner as the existing Legislature of each such Province shall provide.
42. The Local Legislature shall have power to alter or amend their constitution from time tv time.
43. The Local Legislatures .shall have power to make laws resf)ec(ing the following subjects :
1. Direct taxation, and in New Brunswick
the imposition of Duties on the Ex- port of Timber, Logs. Masts, Spt»rs, Deals, and Sawn Lumber ; and in Nova Scotia, of Coals and other min- erals.
2. Borrowing money on the credit of the
Province.
3. The establishment and tenure of local
offices, and the apf)ointmeut and pay- ment of local officers.
4. Agriculture.
5. Immigration.
6. Education ; saving the rights and privil-
which the Protestunt or Catholic minority in both Canadas may possess us to their Denomiiuitional Schools at the time when the Union goes into operation.
7. The sale and management of Public Lands
excepting Lands belonging to the General Government.
8. Sea Coast and Inland Fisheries.
9. The establishment, maintenance and
maitagpment of Penitentiaries, and Public and Refotnuitory Prisons.
10. The establishment, maintenance and management of riospital.s, Asylums. Charities, and Eleemosynary Institu- tions.
11 . Municipal Institutions.
12. Shop, Saloon, Tavern, Auctioneer and
other Licenses.
13. Local Works.
14. The Incorpmration of Private or Local
Companies, except such as relate to matters ussigned to the General Par- liament. l.^. Property and Civil Rights, excepting those portions thereof assi^'ned to the General J*arlininf'!it.
16. Inflicting | unishmeiil by fine, penalties,
imprisonment or otherwise, for the breach of laws puHseU in relation to any subject within their jurisdiction,
17. The Administration of Justici;, including
the Constitution, inaintonaiKvi and organizutior of the ('ourts, — both of Cml and Cn'minal ilunHdiction, and
including also thp Procedure in Civil matters. Is. And generally all matters of a private or local nature, not assigned to the Gen- eral Parliament. "■ 4 L The power of respiting, reprieving, and pardoning Priioners convicted of crimes, and of commuting and remitting of sentences in whole or in part, which belongs of right to the Crown, shall be administered by the Lieutenant Governor of each Province in Council, subject to any instructions he may, from time to time, receive from the Gei:eial Government, and subject to any provisions that may be made in this behalf by the General Parliament.
45. In legurd to all subjects over which juris- diction belong- to both the (ieneral and Local J^egislatures, the laws of the General Parliament shall control and supersede those made by the Local Legislature, and the latter shall be void so far as th«y are repugnant to, or inconsistent with, the former.
46. Both the English and French languages may be employed in the General Parliament and in its proceedings, and in the Local Legislature of Lower Canada, and also in the Federal Courts and in the Courts of Lower Canada.
47. No lands or property belonging to the General or Local Governments shall be liable to tiixatiun.
48. All Bills for appropriating any part of the Public Revenue, or for imposing any new Tax or Ini[)ost, shall originate in the House of CommoiiR or House of Assembly, as the case may be.
49. The Hous» of Commons or House of Assembly shall not originate or pass any Vote, Resolution, Address or Bill foi the aipropn'ation of any part of the Public Revenue, or of any Tax or Impost to any pur|>ose, not first recom- mended by Message of the Governor Genenil cr the Lieutenant Governor, as the case may be, during the Session in which such Vote, Resolu- tion, Adtlress or Bill is passed.
50. Any Bill of the General Parliament may be reserved in the usual manner for Her Majesty's Assent, and any Mill of the Local Legislatuies may, in like manner, be re.served for the con- sideration of the Governor General.
51. Any Rill passed by the General Parliament shall be subject to disallowance by Her Majesty within two years, as in the case of Bills passed by the Legislatures of the said Provinces hither- to; and, in like manner, any Bill pjissed by a Locil Legislflture shall bo .subject to disallowance by the (lovernor General within one year after the |)iussing thereof.
52. The Seat of Governxnent of the Federated Provinces shall be Ottaw.i, .subject to the Royal Prerogatisi;.
;">.'{. Subject to any future action of the lespec- tive Local ( Jovernau'iits, the Seat of tho Local Government in Upper Canada shall be 'i'oronto; of Lower Canada, Quebec; and the Seats of the Local Goveinnienl.s in the other Proviti.-es shall be lis at prujirnt.
Stocks, Caah, Bankers' Balance:* an
e lis at pn 64. All 1
$
Securities for money belonging to each Province at the time of the Union, except as hereinafter mentioned, shall belong to the General Govern- ment.
55. The following Public Works and Property of each Province shall belong to the General Government, to wit : —
1. Canals.
2. i'ublic Harbours.
3. Light Houses and Piers.
4. Steamboats, Dredges and Public Vessels.
5. River and Lake Improvements.
6. Railway and Railway Stocks, Mortgages
and other debts due by Railway Com- panies.
7. Military Roads.
8. Custom Houses, Post Offices and other
Public Buildings, except such as may be set aside by the General Govern- ment for the use of the Local Legis- latures and Governments.
9. Property transferred by the Imperial
Government and known as Ordnance Property.
10. Armories, Drill Sheds, Military Clothing
and -Munitions of War, and
1 1. Lands set apart for public purposes.
56. Ail lands, miues, minerals and royalties vested in Her Majesty in the Provinces of Upper Canada, Lower Canada, iS'ova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island, for the use of such Provinces, shall belong to the Local Government of the territory in which the same are so situate ; subject to any trusts that may exist in respect to any ot such lands or to any interest of other persons in repect of the same.
67. All sums due from purchasers or lessees of such lands, mines or minerals at the time of the Union, shall also belong to the Local Govern- ments.
58. All assets connected with such portions of the public debt of any Province as are as- sumed by the Local Governments shall also belong to thos Governments resjjectively.
59. The several Provinces shall n^tain all other Public Property therein, subject to the right of the General Govejnraent to aso^aiio unv Lands or Public Propeity required f> r Fertifica- tions or the Defence of the Country
60. The General Government shall assume all the Debts aud Liabiliiies of each Province.
61. The liebt of Canada, not specially as- sumed by Upper and Lower Canada respectively, shall noi exceed, at the time of the Union, $62,500,000 ; Nova Scotia shall enter the Union with a di^bt not excejding $8,000,000 ; aud New Brunswick with -i debt not exceediu.tc $7,000,000.
62. In case Nova Scotia or New Lirunswick do not incur liabilitit-s beyond those for which their Governments are now bound, and which shall make their debts at the date of Union less than «8,i'00,000 and S7,00'J,000 respectively, they shall be entitled to interest at five per cent, on the amount not so incurred, in like maimer as is hereinafter provided for Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island ; the foregoing resolution being
in no respect intended to limit the powers given to the respective Governments of those Pro- vinces, by Legislative authority, but only to lire it the maximum amount of charge to be assumed by the General Government ; provided always, that the powers so conferred by the respective Legislatures shall be exercised within five years from this date, or the same shall then lapse.
63. Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island, not having incurred Debts equal to those of the other Provinces, shall be entitled to reoeive, by half-yearly payments, in advance, from the Gen- eral Government, the Interest at five per cent, on the difference between the actual amount of their respective Debts at the time of the Union, and the average amount of indebtedness per head of the Population of Canada, Nova Scotia and New Bruns'wick.
64. In consideration of the transfer iv the Gen- eral Parli.nment of the powers of Taxation, an annual grant in aid of each Province shall be made, equal to eighty cents per head of the pop- ulation, as established by the census of 1861 ; the population of Newfoundland being estimated at 130,000. Such aid shall be in full settlement of all future demands upon the General Government for local purposes, and shall be paid h Jf-yearly in advance to each Province.
65. The position of New Brunswick b^ing such as to entail large immediate charges upon her local rcTenues, it is agreed that for the period of ten yeajs, from the time wh«u the Uni m takes effect, an additional allowance of $63,000 per annum shall be made to that Province. But that so long as the liability of that Province remains under $7,000,000, a deduction equal io the in- terest on such deficiency shall be made irom the $6.3,000.
6(). In consideration of the surrender to the General Government by Newfoundland of ail its rights in Mines and Minerals, and of all the un- granted and unoccupied Lands of the f 'rown, it is agreed that the sum of $150,000 shall each vear be |>aid to that Province, by semi-annual payments ; provided that that Colony shall setain the right of opening, constructing and controlling Ruads and Bridges through anv of the said Lands suDject to any Laws which the General Parlia- ment may pass in respect of the same.
67 All engagements that may before the Un- ion be entered into with the Imperial Govern- ment for the defence of the Country, shall be as- sumed I'.y the General Govern-ment.
68. The General Government shall secure, without delay, the completion of the Intercolonial Railway from Riviere du Loup, through New Brunswick, to Truro in Nova Scotia.
69. The communications with the Novth-West- ern Territory, aud the improvements required for the development of the Trade of t le Great West with the Seaboard, are regarde(; by this Conference as subjects of the highest importance to the Federated Provinces, and shall be prosn- cuted at the earliest possible period tfiat the state of the Finances will permit.
70. The sanction of the Imperial and Local
Parliaments shall be sought for the Union of the Provinces, on the principlfs adopted by the Con- ference.
71. That Her Majesty the Queen be solicited to determine the rank and name of the Federated Provinces.
72. The prooeedihfrs of the Conference shall be authenticated by the signatures of the DeFe- gates, and submitted by each Deleiration to its own Government, and the Chairman is author- ized to submit a copy to the Governor General for transmission to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.
Having read the motion, the hon. gentleman commenced to speak in French, when Hon. Mr. Koss requested he should address the House in English.
Hon. Mr. LETELLIER thought, as there were two members of the government in the House, one who spoke best in French (Sir E. P. Tach^), and one who did the same in Eng- lish, it would be better for the Hon. Premier to speak in French, and then his colleague could do the same in English ; but Hon. Sir E. P. TxcHt concluded that as there were English members who did not understand French at all, while the French members all understood English, it would be best for him to speak in the latter lang-uage, and proceed- ed t-o do so.
Hon. Sir E. P. TACHE then said that in moving the resolution he felt it his duty first to make a few preliminai-y remarks, and to give fully and thoroughly the reasons which had induced him to assume the grave respon- sibility of laying this nic;u>ure before the House and the country. The reasons were two-fold. They related first to the intrinsic merits of the scheme itself, divested of all other considerations, and next, to the settle- ment of the domestic difficulties which for some years had distracted the country, and the means we niighl and ought to employ to re- store good fc(!ling, harmony and concord there- in. He would, then, first address himself to what he considered the intrinsic merits of the sclieine of Confederation, and he would there- fore say that if were anxious tf) continue our connection with the British Empire, and to preserve intact our institutions, our laws, and even our remeuibrances of the past, we must eustiin the measure. If the oppor- tunity which now presented itself were iillowcd to p:iss by unimproved, wlictln r we wouhl or would not. wo would be forced into the Ameri- can Union by violence, jiml if not by violence, would be pi u-ed upon an inclined jilain wliich would carry uh lliere iiiHi'nHibly. lu eiUier case the result would ])e the same. In our
present condition we would not long continue to exist as a British colony. To sustain this position he thought it was only nece.=»ai-y to look at the present state of Canada, its extent, its agricultural and mineral resources, its in- ternal means of communication — natural and artificial, — its geographical position and its climate. The extent of the Canadian terri- tory was, perhaps, not defined, but it was suf- ficiently well known to enable him to state that it was as large as many empires in Eu- rope, larger than France or Austria. He knew that the portion cultivated was, in re- spect to its superficial area, only as to the sea- coast to the sea itself We had vast forest* not yet opened or occupied, and yet we had a population numbering over two and a half millions of souls. With such an extent of territory and so fertile a soil, he had no doubt whatever that in less than half a century Ca- nada would embrace a population equal to that of the large empires of the old world. Then with regard to our internal communica tions, natural and artificial, there was the noble St. LawTence, which, ■with great pro- priety, might be called the father of rivers, for this stream, in point of navigable extent, was longer than any otlier river in the world. Some of its tributaj-ies which would help to people the interior, were larger than the first- class rivers of Europe, and as to its lakes, nonesuch are to be found elsewhere, especially in view of the facilities they aft'ord to trade. Then the minerals of Canada, which were only now beginning to attract attention, were of the most valuable character, and as practical men asserted, much more valuable than the richest auriferous regions could be. The hon- orable member then referred to the artificial commucations of the country, viz., our Caiuds, which, he said, were on a scale unenitalled in America, or, indeed, in the world. Our Hail- way system too, in proportion to our means and population, was as extensive as could be found anywhere else; yet with all these ad- vantages, natural and acfjuired, he was l)ound to say we coiiid not become a great nation. We labored imder a drawback or disadvantage which wo\ild eflect\ially prevent that, and he would defy any one to take a map of the world and point toany great nation which had not sea- port.-* oi" its own open at nil times of the year. Canada did not jwssess those advant.nges, but was shut uj) in a pri.son, as it were, for five months of the year in fields of iie. which all the steam engineering apparatus of human ingenuity could not overcome, Jmd so long as this Htate of things continued, we must con-
sent to be a small people, who could, at any moment, be assailed and invaded by a people better situated in that respect than we were. Canada was, in fact, just like a farmer who might stand upon an elevated spot on his property, from which he could look around upon fertile fields, meandering streams, wood and all else that was necessary to his domestic wants, but who had no outlet to the highway. To be sure he might have an easy, good-na- tured neighbor, who had such an outlet, and this neighbor might say to him, " Don't be uneasy about that, for I will allow yoii to pass on to the highway, through my cross road, and we shall both profit by the arrangement." So
long as this obliging neighbor was in good
humor everything would go on pleasantly, but the very best natured people would sometimes get out of temper, or grow capricious, or cir- cumstances might arise to cause in-itation. And so it might come to pass that the excellent neighbor would get dissatisfied. For instance, he might be iuAolved in a tedious and expen- sive law suit with some one else ; it might be a serious affair — in fact, an affair of life or death, and he mis:ht come to the isolated farmer and say to him, "' I understand that you and your family are all sympathising with my adversary ; I don't like it at all, and I am determined you will find some other outlet to the highway than my cross road, for hence- forth my gate will be shut against you." In such a case what is the farmer to do ? There is the air left, but until the aerostatic science is more practically developed, he can hardly try ballooning without the risk of breaking his neck. (Laughter.) Well, that was pre- cisely our position in reference to the United States. Since the Atlantic and St. Lawrence Railway was opened we have had a very con- venient outlet to the sea, and he, with oth»r hon. members now present, would remember the joyful jubilee which was held on the occa- sion of its opening at Boston in 1851 or '52. For one he was perfectly delighted, as being a man of a different orisrin, to mark how the two branches of the Anglo-Saxon race fraternised. How they did shake hands to be sure ! How they did compliment each other as possessing qualities superior to all other people. They were indeed very affectionate and almost swore eteraal friendship and fidelity, and he (Sir E. P. Tach]6) had no doubt whatever of their perfect sincerity at the time. The con- sequences of this great work had, no doubt, been highly advantageous to both sides, for their commercial relations had enlarged very much, so much indeed that now the transac-
tions with the United States were, as he be- lieved, more extensive than those with Great Britain. If the advantao-es had been all on one side this increase would, of course, not have taken place. But how were we situated now ? Difficulties had supei-vened, in which we were in no wise concerned, but which ori- ginated with themselves. It was North against South solely, yet these difficulties had afl'ected the good feelin"' between them and this coun- try. To be sure there had been no misunder- standing at all between our respective Govern- ments, but the minds of the people on both sides had been considerably affected. The people of the Northern States believed that Canadians sympathized with the South much more than they really did, and the conse- quences of this misapprehension were : first, that we had been threatened with the abolition of the transit system ; then the Reciprocity Treaty was to be discontinued ; then a pass- port system was inaugurated, which was almost equivalent to a prohibition of intercourse, and the only thing which really remained to be done was to shut down the gate altogether and prevent passage through their territor)^ Would any one say that such a state of things was one desirable for Canada to be placed in ? Will a great people in embryo, as he believed we were, coolly and tranquilly cross their arms and wait for what might come next ? For his part he held that the time had now arrived when we should establish a union with the great Gulf Provinces. He called them great advisedly, for they had within themselves many of the elements which went to constitute greatness, and of some of which we were destitute. — Canada was unquestionably wanting in several of these important elements, and he had been very sorry a few days ago to hear an hon. member of this House make comparisons un- favorable to those countries. That hon. mem- ber had said the Lower Provinces were poor and needy, and that like all other poor people they would no doubt be glad to connect them- selves with a wealthy partner. He had also said their product of wheat was very small, and that one of the inferior counties in Upper Canada yielded more than the whole of New Brunswick. Well, the allegations in respect of the produce of wheat might be true ; but that did not necessarily constitute them poor provinces. Let the honorable member look at Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island and New Hampshire, which, in respect of agricultural ^^roduce, might be said to be poor, so poor that an American had once told him (Sir E. P. Tach£) that they did not even grow
8
grass, and their inhabitants had to file the teeth of their sheep in summer to enable them to get a subsistence. (Laughter.) Yet were these states poor? Had they no resources from their trade and manufactures ? If they did not produce wealth in one way they cer- tainly did in others, and so it was with New Brunswick. If it did not produce wheat, it produced timber in immense quantities. It had a very exteu.sive fishing coast which was a source of great wealth. Some honorable gentlemen would perhaps remember what an eminent man from Nova Scotia — the Hon. Joseph Howe — had said at a dinner in this country in 1850, that he knew of a small granite rock upon which, at a siugle haul of the net, the fishermen had taken 500 barrels of mackerel. That was a great haul no doubt — (laughter) — but the honorable gentle- man had not given the size of the barrels. (Laughter.) Still no one could deny that the Gulf Provinces were of immense importance, if only in respect of their fisheries. Then they were rich in minerals. Their coal alone was an element of great wealth. It had been said that where coal was found the country was of more value than gold. Look at England, and what was the chief source of her wealth ii' not coal? Deprived of coal, she would at once sink to the rank of a second or third rate power. But Canada had no coal, and notwithstanding all her other elements of greatness, she required that mineral in order to give her completeness. What she had not, the Lower Provinces had ; and what they had not, Canada had. Then as to ship-building, it was an industiy prosecuted w-ith great vigor and success in tliose provinces, esp»jcially in New Brunswick, and some of the finest vessels sailing under the British flag had been built in the port of St. John, wiiicli annually launched a consi- derable number of the largest class. They were not beggare, nor did they wish to come into the union as such ; but as inde)K'iKk'nt provinces, able to keep up their eredit, and provide lor their own wants. They would bring into the common stoek a fair share oi" revenue, of jjroperty, and of every kind ol' industry. As to their harbours, he (Sir E. P. Tac'H£) had had the good Ibrtiuic to visit them jKTsoually, :ind would siiy they could not be sur|Kus,sed anywhere ; in fact he believed they were uneijualled in the world. He would espeeially reler to tlj»t of Halifax, and would ask honorable incnibers to imagine an exten- •ive roadHi«ad, protected by several islands titundin^' out in the sou, so as to break the
waves and quiet the waters in the worst of storms. This most beautiful harbour could accommodate, in perfect safety, more than 100 of the largest vessels ; but this was not all, for at the east end where it diminished into a gully, but with very deep water, you enter into a large natural basin, rounded as it were by the compass, and of au extent sufficient to take in all the navies of the world. The entrance to this magnificent inner harbour was rendered inacces.sible to any foe by the fortifi- cations erected at the mouth, and the entrance could, moreover, be so barred that no hostile fleet could ever get through. He did not suppo.se the fleets of England would ever need to take refuge there — (hear, heai*) — although it had been loudly alleged that they could be blown out of the water in an incredibly short space of time — (laughter) — but it might afford shelter to isolated vessels, in ca.se they were hard pushed by superior numbers. Well, under the union, Canada would become a partner in these advantages, and with the harbours of Halifax and Quebec, they might well feel proud of their country. On the whole, he thought that the Confederation of all the Pro\inces had become an abstjlute necessity, and that it was fi>r us a question of to be or not to be. If we desired to remain British and monarchical, and if we desired tu pass to our children the.se advantages, this measure, he rojieatcd, was a necessity. But there were other motives and other reasons which should induce us to agree to the scheme. Every honorable gentlem;m in the House knew the political position of the country, and wen' acquainted with the feelings of irritation which have prevailed for many years. They knew it happily not by their experience in this House, but by the tone of the public press, and by the discussions in another place where taunts and menaces were I'reely flung across the floor by contending parties. They knew what human passions were, and how, when bitter feelings continued for a long time, the distance between exasperation and actual confliet was not very great. They had now before their own eyes an example ol' the efl'ects of sueh disagreements. It was persistently believed by many that the rival interests would never come to a rupture, but for three years they had ham waging a conflict which had desolated and ruined tlie I'airesl jxirtiou ol" the ejHintry, and in the eourse of which acts of barbarity had been committed which were fuily equalled by the darkest ages. We in Canada were nut more perfect, and the time had arrived when, as he believed, all the patriotic men in the country ought to unite in
9
providing a remedy for the troublefi we had to 1 contend with. It might be said that the remedy proposed was not required, but he would like to know what other could be pro- posed. Legislation in Canada for the last two years had come almost to a stand still, and if any one would refer to the Statute Book since 1862, he would find that the only public measures there inscribed had been passed simply by the permission of the Opposition. This was the condition of things for two years, and if this were an evil there was another not less to be deplored ; he referred to the adminis- tration of public affairs during the same period. From the ^Ist May, 1862, to the end of June, 1864, there had been no less than five different Governments in charge of the business of the country. The honorable member here gave a history of the several changes until the Mac- DONALD-DoRiON Administration died, as he stated, of absolute weakness, falling under the weight they were unable to carry. Their successors were not more successful, and being defeated were thinking of appealing to the country, which they might have done with more or less success, gaining a consti- tuency here, and perhaps losing another else- where. They had assumed the charge of affairs with an understanding that they would have a right to this appeal, and while they were consulting about it they received an inti- mation from the real: chief of the Opposition, through one of their own friends, to the effect that he was desirous of making overtures to them, with the view of seeking to accommo- date the difficulties. The honorable gentleman and some of his friends then came into contact with the leaders of the Government, and it was agreed between them to try to devise a scheme which would put an end to the mis- understandings, and at the same time secure for Canada and the other provinces a position which would ensure their future safety and procure them the respect and confidence of other nations. They arranged a large scheme and a smaller one. If the larger failed, then they were to fall back upon the minor, which provided for a federation of the two sections of the province. At the time these measures were resolved upon, the country was bordering on civil strife, and he would ask if it was not the duty of both sides to do all they could to prevent the unfortunate results which would have followed. An honorable member oppo- site (Hon. Mr. Letellier de St. Just) had said, a few days ago, that it would have been easy to have prevented the necessity for a Confederation of all the provinces, by granting
to Upper Canada the increased representation, or the demand of representation according to population, which they had been contending for.
Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DE ST. JUST begged to say that the Hon. Premier must have misunderstood him. What he had said was that if the proposition had been made to the people whether they should have a Con- federation of all the provinces, or give Repre- sentation according to Population to Upper Canada, they would have chosen the latter ; and when he had alluded to some other mode of accommodating the difficulties, he meant that if the Government had applied to other parties in the Legislature than those they had had associated with themselves, they might have succeeded without having recourse to Confederation.
Hon. Sir E. P. TACHE said that he had not been alone in interpreting the honorable member as he had done, for two city journals had taken the same view of his remarks.
Hon. M. LETELLIER said he was aware of it, but they were mistaken for all that.
Hon. Sir E. P. TACHE— Well, it did not much matter ; but the honorable member should recollect that Lower Canada had con- stantly refused the demand of Upper Canada for representation according to population, and for the good reason that, as the union between them was legislative, a preponderance to one of the sections would have placed the other at its mercy. It would not be so in a Federal Union, for all questions of a general nature would be reserved for the General Government, and those of a local character to the local governments, who would have the power to manage their domestic affairs as they deemed best. If a Federal Union were obtained it would be tantamount to a sepai-a- tion of the provinces, and Lower Canada would thereby preserve its autonomy together with all the institutions it held so dear, and over which they could exercise the watchful- ness and surveillance necessary to preserve them unimpaired. [The honorable member re- peated this portion of his speech in French, for the express purpose of conveying his meaning in the clearest and most forcible manner to his fellow-members for Lower Canada, who might not have apprehended so well the English.] But there might be a portion of the inhabitants of Lower Canada who might at a first glance have greater reason to complain than the French Roman Catholics, and these were the English Protestants. And why ? Because they were in a minority ; but
10
he thoun;ht that if they took the trouble fully to cousider the subject, they would be re- assured and satisfied with the scheme. First a great event had taken place ; the law of Lower Canada had been consolidated, and the English-speaking people residing in that section had got reconciled to it; in fact they were well satisfied tliorewith. Tn this respect, then, they were secure. But they might say that the majority in the Local Legislature might hereafter be unjust to them, but he thought that, on looking at the past, their fears might be allayed. Before the union of the provinces, when the large majority of members in the Legislature were French, the English inhabi- tants had never found cause of complaint against them. In no instance had injustice been attempted. The difficulty was that the minority wanted to rule and wanted to possess the whole power of the state in their bands. That the people of Lower Canada always acted towards the English with liber- ality was best exemplified by facts. Before the union ,wile the constituencies were almost exclusively French, English Protestant gentle- men were frequently returned to Parliament, and he had now opposite to him an honorable member who had for twenty years represented an entirely French and Roman Catholic county. He doubted if in the course of those twenty years that honorable member had ever been asked whether he were Scotch or Protestant. They took the man for his sterling worth. It was even a fact that the French had elected members with extraordinary names, and as everybody knew, there was sometimes a good deal in a name. (Hear, hear.) Now il' there was one name which French Canadians dis- liked more than another, it was that of Luther. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Yet they had elected a gentleman bearing that significant appellation. He was glad they had, and he hud no doubt lie had been elected because of his personal worth ; but it unquestionably showed a great deal of liberal feeling on the part of the electors. (Hear hear.) But if an English Protestant wa,s bad in the eyes of H French Canadian, a French Protestant was infinitely worse, and yet the county ol' Lotr binidre had elected a French Canadian Pro- testant without even questioning his religion. That gentlemiin was a most worthy, able and well educated person, and every way well qualified for the important trust. But ag.iin, quite lately, in a diviniou in Lower Canada numbering over fifty thousand souls, of which only one tliousand four hundred were Kiigliah, M oleotion of a mombor to this Chamber hud
taken place, the candidates being a French Roman Catholic gentleman, long and well known, and an English Protestant — and with what result ? Why, that the English Protes- tant had beaten the French Canadian Roman Catholic by one thousand votes. (Hear.) Could any greater proof of a tolerant and liberal feeling be exhibited ? These examples should show, as he thought, that the Protes- tants of Lower Canada were sure to meet with not justice simply, but with the largest tolera- tion. It might perhaps be said that Mr. Price, who had been elected for the division of which he spoke, being a largo merchant doing busi- ness in Chicoutimi, had used the influence which his position gave him over many electors who were in his debt to obtain success ; but whattiver might be said of Chicoutimi, it could not be said of the county of Charlevoix, where he had no such business relations, and yet ho obtained a majority there too. The fact was, the result might be considered not only as a mark of confidence in Mr. Price, the son elected, but as a token of respect and gratitude to Mr. Price, senior, who had by his energy and enterprise opened up the Saguenay country, and who, in a certain sense, might be said to be the father of that region. Much had been said on the war of races, but that war was extinguished on the day the British Government granted Canada Responsible Gov- ernment, by which all its inhabitants, without distinction of race or creed, were placed on a footing of equality. (Hear, hear). The war of races found its grave in the resolutions of the 3rd September, 1841, and he hoped never to hoar of it again. We were so situated that there must needs bo mutual forbearance. This life was one of compromise. Not only was for- bearance needed in puhliclife, butin domestic life. If one member in a family insists upon having all his own way, there will bo trouble, and so through all possible relations of humanity. He believed the French Canadians would do all in their power to render justice to their fellow-subjects of English origb, and it should not be forgotten that if the former were in a majority in Lower Canada, the English would bo in a majority in tho Gei\eral Government, and that no act ol" real injustice could take place, even if thej-e were a disposition to perpetrate it, without its being reversed there. He had now given to the House the motives whitsh had led him to take the respoubibility of iutrodueing this important mcjisure, and lie trusted they would be viewed iiK sufficient. When the proj>er timo for the ditouMiou of i\\9 details oame, ho v, <iuld b«
11
prepared to give such explanations ns might seem requisite, and as to the mode and time of the discussion he would leave that to the decision of the House.
Hon. Mr. FERGUSSON BLAIR— [Owing to some noise in the House, the reporter did not clearly understand the opening remarks of the hon. memher, except so far as that he de- sired to convey the impression that what he was about to say was not to be regarded as committing any one but himself; that he did not speak for any party or as representing any party in the House. The hon. member was also understood to allege he did not think the political struggles and difficulties alluded to by the Hon. Premier could be taken as sufficient to justify the great constitutional change now proposed]. He thought that in the course of party struggles for supremacy, the Opposition had erred in seeking to oust the Ministry be- fore they themselves were prepared to assume the charge with a reasonable prospect of being able to carry on the Government with success. This was the British system, and an instance had lately occurred in the Imperial Parliament exemplifying it. On the Danish question Mr. D' Israeli could have defeated the Ministry, but, being aware that he could not form a strong Administration, many of his party ab- stained from voting. Such a condition of things could happen just as well in an assem- bly of 300 as in one of 600, and he did not think the change proposed would guarantee immunity from future difficulties of the same kind, therefore they might happen in the Gen- eral Government as well as in that of Canada alone. But looking at the scheme as pre- sented, and forgetting all past party disputes and the charges against the public men con- cerned, it came before the House in such a shape as to make it necessary to accept or re- ject it. He must say he could not but attach great weight to a scheme prepared by men of different political opinions, by eminent men who had met together for the express purpose of arranging it, and who had agreed upon its provisions. If it were obstructed by any seri- ous amendments, involving a prolonged delay, such delav mit'ht be fatal, and if it were to pass, he thought it should be allowed to do so at a sufficiently early period to permit of its being laid before the Imperial Parliament this year. (Hear, hear.) He could not shut his eyes to the fact that whether or not the union added strength to the provinces interested, it would unquestionably add to their respecta- bility and standing, both at homeland abroad. (Hear.) The people of England were, evi-
dently looking to the proposed change with confidence and hope, and as likely to perpet^ uate the connection of the provinces with the empire for a long time to come. But it was well known that there was an anti-colonial party in England persistently urging that it would be an advantage to the nation to get rid of the colonies. The question of defending them was an embarrassing one, and unless some such scheme as this were adopted, it might present grave difficulties. If the scheme were rejected, the effect would be very injuri- ous upon our credit. (Hear.) But if adopted, the reverse would be the case. Its acceptance would also improve ovir position in the eyes of our neighbors in France and other nations ; indeed it would, in all probability, give us a national standing, without the necessity of separating from the mother country. For these reasons he had come to the conscientious con- clusion that it would be highly injurious to reject the scheme, and that it was our duty to pass it as soon as was consistent with a due consideration of what was due to so important a subject. He did not think it necessary to express, at greater length, his reasons for giv- ing the motion his support, but he again de- sired it to be well understood that he spoke only for himself, and not in concert with any one else. At the same time he might say, that from what he knew personally of the feeling of his section of the country, it was highly favorable to the measure. There might be some matters of detail upon which there was a difference of opinion, and when the reso- lutions came up in their order, he would indi- cate what they were. The proposed submis- sion of the scheme to the electors would in- volve a delay which could not be compensated for by any benefit proposed to be derived from such a course!; but if there should hereafter be any very important public movement and numerous petitions in favor of an appeal to the people, then the subject would present a different aspect. Or if the majority in favor of the scheme in the other branch of the Le- gislature should be very small, that^ might be deemed a sufficient reason for submitting it to the country. As to the course to be pursued in the decision on the merits, he did not know whe- ther it would be best to have it in Committee of the Whole or with the Speaker in the chair. Hon. Sir E. p. TACHE thought it would be better that the Speaker should continue in the chair, but with the understanding that every honorable member should be at liberty to speak asjreely and frequently as if the House were iu comuiittee.
12
Hon. Mr. FERGUSSON BLAIR assented.
Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DE ST. JUST said, that if he were suflBciently master of English he would address the House in that language, but not being bo would have to use the French. The difficulties to which allusion had been made were produced by two cau.seB. They were not constitutional, however, but parliamentary, and, as he believed, could have been surmounted without recourse to the constitutional change which it was proposed to adopt without appeal to the country. It was true that difficulties had succeeded to difficulties, and that legislation was stopped, but if the leaders had sought in the Legisla- ture itself for the means of removing them, he believed they would have been found. Who would guarantee the Government under the new Constitution from the recurrence of similar troubles ? There would of course be an Op- position as in the smaller House. If similar difficulties happened, would the Confederation seek relief in another change of Constitution. On the contrary, would not relief be sought in the means he had suggested. At any rate he did not think such a change as the union of all the British provinces was required. In 1820, when a union of Upper and Lower Canada was proposed, it was objected that if it did not work a larger union would follow, and then, lastly, a legislative union of all the provinces. Two of these steps had already been taken, and we were going on with rapid strides towards the last. In such a case it was not hard to conceive what would be the posi- tion of Lower Canada. It was a misfortune that we had to contend with national prejudices, but it was impossible to forget them. In the event of a legislative union would the guaran- tees proposed to Lower Canada under the federation system be found ? Would it not then be at the mercy of those they now feared ? He admitted we had a rich country as repre- sented ; we had wheat fields, mineral resources, forests, rivers and lakes, but to make them available did we require an increase of terri- tory ? We had territory enougli, and an increase would be a source of weakness, not of strength. Would it not add to our already large frontier, and make us more vulnerabK- to inviisions. The union would not increase the power of England to protect us, and England would liave the same interest in protecting the colonies without as well as with the union. New Brunswick iniglit be rich in coal, in wood and in lisheritis, and do a large business in ship building, but the.so things would beck the best markets under any circuni-
stinces, and he did not see that a union with us would increase their value, and if it did it would be no advantage. Then, a.«5 to Nova Scotia with its .small population and fine harbour — wliere would be the advantage of connection with her? Though not united, would not the harbour be equally available to our vessels ? He would now say he preferred to Confederation a legislative union of Upper and Lower Canada with inequality of repre- sentation in the Lower House and equality in the Upper. This would not add to the ex- penses of the province, and would be more consonant with our interests and the sentiments [ideas] of the people. Though there should be inequality in the Assembly, the equality in the Legislative Council would act as a coun- terpoise, and prevent one section from invading the interests of the other. Then did not Con- federation consecrate [establish] the principle of representation according to population ? It would give larger to one of the nationalities, and, as the General Government would be able to veto the acts of the Local Government, would there be no danger to Lower Canada? If representation by population had been so much opposed in this part, it was doubtless because there was cause of fear, yet this very power was to be conferred upon the Federal Government. If it could not be given with safety under our present regime, how could it be safer to give it to the Confederation. The advantage of the plan to Upper Canada was well understood, for immediately after the coalition they all agreed to say they had gained what they had so long contended for.
Hon. Sir E. P. TACHfi— Well, after all, they only got what the honorable member liimself proposed to give them.
Hon. Mr. LETELLIER DE ST. JUST said he always preferred a short diri'ot course to a long tortuous one. The friends of the new uutvement had tried to conceal tlie fact that representation according to popuhuion was to be conceded to I pper Canada, but they had failed, and the avowal hud come out at last. The resolutions not being before the House, it would be iuiprop<T to go into the merits ol' the details, but he could not avoid alluding to one point which was of }irofound interest. It was clear llmt the const iliuiuie* had not sent honorable memlters totliis House for the purpo.sc of electing thonisi'lves mem- bers tiir life, as they were invited to do. They were not sent lieix' to change tlie Constitution, but to uphold it. (Hear.) You were, in fact, about to declare that the local govern- meut^t would have power to recommend to the
13
General Grovemment that you should be ap- pointed for life. If so, then let the people say whether such power should be conferred. Take the means to make sure that the mem- bers of the Assembly shall appeal to the country. In New Brunswick the question was about to be submitted to the people through a general election. To be sure, it was said that the term of Parliament there had expired ; but if the Ministers in New Brunswick had understood they could force a vote, as was about to be done in Canada, he doubted whether the general election would have taken place immediately. He beUeved, too, that the Conference generally had re- garded this as the most proper mode. Then he did not think that such a change should have been brought about under a Coalition Government. This was contrary ^_to British usage, and he believed that if a petition was numerously signed, and forwarded to the Imperial Government, repr&senting that this important change had been brought about by a coalition, the act would be declared uncon- stitutional. The scheme was practically unknown to the people. Under some pres- sure it had been sent confidentially.^ to the members, but what did the country under- stand of it ? — little or nothing. It had been said that if the scheme were not adopted nuw it would be in danger ; but would it not keep good for a little while ? Was it feared that the people would find out that it would occasion increased expense, and so refuse to have it ? If only for the reason that it was not known to the people, he would vote against it. When the details came to be discussed, he believed some of them would not be ap- proved ; and he also thought that the project did not embrjice all the provisions wliich it should embrace. Finally, he thought the Government should not set its face against some changes in the scheme, were it only in the matter of the election of members to the Legislative Council, and he hoped the House would lead them to consent to that alteration. When the resolutions came up, he would make it his duty to speak more positively to the particulars in question. The honorable mem- ber then sat down, saying he approved of the mode of discussion proposed- (Hear, hear. J
HOiN. Mr. CURRIE then moved that the debate be adjourned until Monday, which was carried.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY,
Friday, February 3, 1865.
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD said the Speaker having desired that he should not go on with the Address about the union of the colonies, he proposed not to take it up till Monday next, but as the matter was one of the utmost importance, he thought it would be well now to settle the mode of conducting the discussion. He would propose that after the discussion commenced, it shouM continue day after day, and that for the purpose of greater regularity the Speaker should remain in the chair. At the same time he would propose that the rule which prevented mem- bers speaking more than once when the Speak- er was in the chair should be suspended, in order that every member might ha-s e the same liberty of free discussion as he would have in Committee of the Whole.
Hon. J. S. MACDONALD said the Attm-- ney General's proposition that discussion should continue day after day, was one which, in his opinion, ought not to be entertained by the House. This was a very gTavc question, and he thought the people of this country had a right to consider maturely the sentiments promulgated by their representatives with re- gard to it. He was sorry, therefore, to have heard it announced by the Attorney General that the Government were to hurry the mea- sure through, to the exclusion or" all other matters.
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD said he had not stated this. His idea was that after the debate commenced it should go on each day after half-past seven, leaving the afternoon sit- ting for other business. If the discussion was to be confined to government days, the debate of Tuesday would be forgotten by Friday, the same arguments would be gone over, and they would sit the whole year round to tinish it.
Hon. J. S. MACDONALD said other changes of no less importance than this, with reference to Clergy Reserves, Legislutive Coun- cil, Seignorial Tenure, &c., had been before the people for a quarter of a century, and fully discussed session after session b*^fore being finally disposed of Public opinion in that way was fully matured on these questions, but here they were called on at a few Tiays' notice to change entirely the Constitution we lived under, and time was not to be allowed for pubUc opinion to be expressed on it. He ob- jected also to the suspension of the rules of Parliament, so as to make the discussion take
14
place with the Speaker in the chair, instead of in Committee of the Whole. If there was any question on which the House should adhere to its forms, it was a question like this — when the Government was so strong, so outrageously strong — (laughter) — the minority should be protected by the rules of the House being fully maintained. He observed the President of the Council laugh. He had learned a good deal from that gentleman in standing up for the rules of the House. But now, forsooth, the lion and lamb were lying together, and the Government, knowing that they had it in their power, were now to carry the measure through by brute force — the force of the majority.
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD said there was nothing irregular in his proposing that discussion should go on with the Speaker in the chair. The suspension of the rules he proposed was for the protection of the mino- rity, by allowing each member to speak and Btate his objections as often as he pleased.
Hon. J. H. CAMERON approved of the proposition that discussion be conducted with the Speaker in the chair. With reference to the other proposition that it should go on from day to day, he suggested that after Attorney General Macdonald had stated his views at length on Monday, the debate should be ad- journed for at least one week, that people in the country might have the views of the Gov- ernment fully before them, before the debate fairly commenced. After that it might go on day after day.
Hon. Mr. HOLTON said he had not regarded the Attorney General's proposition in exactly the same light as the member for Cornwall, but was willing to accept it as indi- cating a desire on the part of the Government to afford facilities for a full and free discussion. He thought, however, it would be advantage- ous if. after the general discussion took place with the Spesiker in the chair, the House went into Committee of the; Whole, to consider the details. He tliought three days in the wvek sufficient for the discussion.
Hon. .Mr. BROW.N said tho iiiciuImt for Chateauguay had rightly apprclmndcd the object of the Attorney t Jeneral when he treated his proposition as dietat«;d by a desire to alford the fullest opportunity uf discus-siiig ihin great question. Nothing could be furtlirr IVom their intention than to hurry the uieasuro thruugli by brute lorce, as charged by the nicmbi-r fur Cornwall. Altliougli tin- Attorney General had j)roposed that the diseutwion Khould eoiitinuc day nWer day, lie had luit suggofclW for aiuoiuent tiiat the whole should
be hurried on ; th« debate at any period might be adjourned, if deemed necessary, to allow time for the expression of public opinion. There were 130 members, and almost every member would desire to speak on the question, and he thought clearly the proper course was to devote every day after hall-past seven to the di.stcussion. to allow all the members on both sides to stato. their views, that they might go to the country and be fully considered. He thought there was a good deal of force in the suggestion of the member for Peel, that after the views of the Gt)vernment had been stated distinctly to the House the debate should be adjourned ibr a short time. Of course the Attorney General East, as "well as the Attorney General West, would desire to explain the scheme from his point of view, so would the Minister of Finance; and probably he also (Mr. Brown) from his own particular stand point would like to say something about the scheme. After the views of the Government had thus been put before the House, there could be no difficulty about adjourning the debate for a time, that the country might distinctly under- stand what they were about.
After some remarks by Hon. Mr. Cau- ciioN and Mr. Dunkin,
Mr. POWELL :isked whether the House was expected to adopt the scheme in it« entirety, or would it be open to the House to adopt one portion of it and nyect another portion of it ?
Hon. Mr. HOLTON— That is not a fair question.
Hon. Mr. BROWN— Perfectly fair.
Mr. POWELL thought Mr. Helton's re- gard for fair play excessive, when it even im- pelled him to interfere on behalf of the Ad- ministration.
Hon. Mr. HOLTON— I think it would be unfair to answer such a question.
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD said he agreed that Mr. Cameron's proposition w;is u reason- able one. The Government would, in the first place, lay their case before the House, and through the press beibre the country, and then allow a reasonable time tor the country to judge of the cjise as presented by the Go- vornuieut. It would not, of course, ho pre- Hinted by hliuself alone, as the President of the Council had said. The subject was so large in itself and comprehended so great a variety of details, th:it he fancied all tlie mem- bers of the Govenniieut would liiul it neecKsary to express their views on particular portions of this groat seheine. In answer to tin* mem- ber tor CarletOD, th« Goverumeul desired to
16
say that they presented the scheme as a whole, and would exert all the influence they could bi'ing to bear in the way of argument to in- duce the House to adopt the scheme without alteration, and for the simple reason that the scheme was not one framed by the Government of Canada, or by the Government of Nova Scotia, but was in the nature of a treaty set- tled between the different colonies, each clause of which had been fully discussed, and which had been agreed to by a system of mutual compromise. Of course it was competent to the House to vote against the Address as a whole, or to adopt amendments to it, but if they did so, it would then be for the Govern- ment to consider whether they would press the scheme further on the attention of the House. It was obvious that unless the scheme were adopted as it had been settled between the different provinces, if they prosecuted it fur- ther, they would have to conmience de novo, and he had no hesitation in expressing his be- lief that if the scheme was not now adopted in all its principal details, as presented to the House, we could not expect to get it passed this century. It had been only in conse- quence of a very happy concurrence of cir- cumstances, which might not easily arise again, that the different provinces had been enabled to arrive at the conclusion now presented, and he should exceedingly regret in the interests of Canada and of the future of British North America, if anything should delay beyond this year the completion and conclusion of this great scheme. The resolu- tions on their face bore evidence of compro- mise ; perhaps not one of the delegates from any of the provinces would have propounded this scheme as a whole, but being impressed with the coQviction that it was highly desir- able with a view to the maintenance of British power on this continent that there should be Confederation and a junction of all the pro- vinces, the consideration of the details was entered upon in a spirit of compromise. Not one member of the Canadian Government had his own views carried out in all the details, and it was the same with the other delegates. But after a full discussion of sixteen days, and after the various details had been voted on, the resolutions as a whole were agreed to by a unanimous vote ; every one of the delegates, whatever his view to any of the details, being satisfied to adopt the whole scheme as adopted by a majority for each individual re- solution, and to press it upon his own Legis- lature as the only practicable scheme that ^oould be carried ; such being the case, he
trusted tho Government would have the sup- port of a very large majority of the House in carrying the scheme just as it stood, mem- bers sacrificing their individual opinions as to particular details, if satisfied with the Govern- ment that the scheme as a whole was for the benefit ard prosperity of the people of Canada.
Hon. Mr. HOLTON would like to inquire whether, according to the course of proceed- ing proposed by the Attorney General, the several resolutions of the Conference would be submitted separately to the House as affirma- tive propositions ?
Attt. Gen. MACDONALD said " no." The proposition submitted to the House is that an Address be presented to Her Majesty, praydng that a bill [should be passed based on these resolutions. All amendments might be moved to that one resolution. It would be the same thing, in fact, as to move them upon each resolution separately.
Hon. Mr. HOLTON held that the Govern- ment ought to ask for an affirmative vote from the House on each of these resolutions. They had been prepared and passed by a self-consti- tuted body, without the House or the people ever having been consulted on the subject. Unless the House were a sham altogether, the least reference that could be paid to it would be to obtain a direct affirmation of each of the basis on which the projected Constitu- tion which was hereafter to govern us were to be founded.
Hon. Mr. CAUCHON wished information as to whether the scheme was to be discussed as a whole, or whether there would be an op- portunity given to consider each part of it separately ? There were part of the resolu- tions about which there might be some mis- understanding and difference of opinion, as for example those clauses by one of which it was stated that the civil laws of the country were to be under the control of the local governments, and by the other of which the law of marriage was placed under the control of the General Government. The law of mar- riage pervaded the whole civil code, and he wanted to know how it could be placed under a different legislature from that which was to regulate the rest of the civil law. He did not, however, see why an affirmative vote on each resolution would enable the House to pronounce with more freedom on these details than the course proposed by the Attorney General,
Hon. a. a. DORION said the member for Montmorency misapprehended the scope of the objection made by the member for Chateau-
16
guay. That objection wafl that the freedom of Parliaijicnt would be better consulted, and more opportunity would be given to learn the sense of the House by the different clauses of the Address being moved seriatim, in the same way as supplies were voted. This was the manner in which the Irish Union Act had been passed, as well as the bill to change the Goverumout of India, the Canadian Union Act of 1840, Legislative Council Act, and other important meiisures. This was the uniform course of Parliament, and there was no pre- cedent to be found for any contrary mode of proceeding. He thought the course proposed on the Opposition side of the House the most reasonable — that there should be a general dis- cussion on the scheme, in which Members of the Government should state their views ; that then there should be an adjournment for a week to enable the pubUc to consider these speeches, and that then the subject should be discussed three whole days each week till dis- posed of. This would, in fact, be devoting more time to it than the plan that was pro- posed by the President of the Council, and would secure more fair, open and full oppor- tunity for discussion.
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD could under- stand the object of the hon. member for Hochelaga. That hon. gentleman was op- posed to Confederation, and the course he pro- posed wat; just that which was calculated to throw the scheme to another Parliament and till another conference was held, so that Con- federation might not be effected till the day of judgiiicnt. i'hese resolutions were in the na- ture <ji a treaty, and if not adopted in their entiif ty, the proceedings would have to be com:iicnc<!d de rujvo. If each province under- took to change the details of the scheme, there would be no end to the discussions and the conl'erenccH which would have to bo held. — Then, as to having a debate tliree days a week, it would extend tlie session beyond all bounds, especially as after the Confederatioij scheme was disposed of, there would be a measure for organizing the local governments under that scheme.
Hon. Mr. HOLTON -Why not bring that measure down with this ?
Atty. Gen. MACDONAIiDsnid that they were two ditlereut propositions, and they could be only dealt with separaU-ly. If the House declared, l)y its vote, tliat Confederation was desirable, then it would be proper to eousider the nature of the local goveniinentrt ; but if it failed to aceept tlie principle of Confederation, then it would be «Mitirely unulutw to bring up
the other measure. Besides, to bring down both measures at once would make confusion worse confounded, because members would, of necessity, introduce their views upon local goveiTimentsinto the consideration of the Con- federation question.
Hon. J. S. MACDONALD coramentr ed upon the declaration that the resolu- tions of the Conference were tantamount to a treaty, and asked by what authority the Government had undertaken to negotiate a treaty. He contended that all forms of the House should be strictly observed, so that there should be no infringement upon the rights of the minority.
Mr. THOMAS FERGUSON asked whe- ther it was the intention of the Government to carry this measure into force without submit- ting it to the people ?
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD said he could answer his honorable friend at once. If this measure received the support of the House, there would be no necessity of going to the people. If, however, the measure were de- feated, it, would be for the Government to consider whether there should not be an ap- peal to the country. (Hear, hear, and laugh- ter.)
Mr. SCATCHERD asked whether it was intended to make any amendments in the scheme to meet the suggestions contained in the despatch of the Colonial Secretary.
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD. in reply, said of course he could not answer what the policy of the Imperial Government might be ; all he could say w;is tliis, that the represen- tatives of the various colonial governments, after this treaty had been made, agreed to go home and press upon the legislatures of their respective produces this measure as a whole, and to pi'esent in all the colonial legislatures addresses identical in their nature to Her Majesty, asking Her to pass an Act based upon these resolutions, such address being an expression of the deliberate opinion of the colonies. It would then become the duty of the Imperial Government and Legislature to net as they pleased in the mattt^r. He hoped and believed they would not niake any altera- tions in the scheme adopt^nl by the Confer- ence. He was quite satisfied that if the local legislatures asked them to pass the scheme as it stood, they would leave us to be the best judges of our own aflairs and carry the mea- sure through.
Hon. .Mil. HOLTON said ho had given notice the other day of throe questions he in- tfudiMl to p\it to the Government before going
17
into Committee of Supply, but as the present was an equally favorable opportunity, he trusted there would be no objection to Ms put- ting them now.
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD— No, go on.
Hon. Mr. HOLTON said the first question had a reference to the subject to which the Attorney General had alluded in the course of his remarks just now. It was, whether it was the intention of the Government to bring down their projects for local constitutions for the two sections of Canada before inviting the House to proceed with the discussion of this question of Confederation. The honorable
fentleman had already answered that question y saying it was not the intention of the Gov- ernment to introduce this measure, and had given reasons for this course. Upon these reasons he (Hon. Mr. Holton) desired to say one word. He maintained that the question now before the House was, should they revolu- tionize the country, should they revolutionize the government of the country? (Hear, hear.) That was undoubtedly the question, and he would like to know distinctly whether the form of the proposed new government, local as well as general, formed part of the same scheme ? He felt that the House could not be in a position to consider the proposed forms of the Constitution until they had before them, at least in a general way, the forms of government which were to obtain between the two sections of the province, of the union of which a dissolution was to be wrought by the measure before the House. Then another question which he had proposed to put had reference to the educational system of Lower Canada. The Minister of Finance, in a sjjeech at Sherbrooke, had promised that the Gov- ernment would introduce a bill to amend the school laws of Lower Canada. The honorable gentleman must be aware that this was a question on which there was a great deal of feeling in this section of the province amongst the English-speaking, or the Protestant class, of the population . He did not like to introduce anything of a religious character into discus- sions of this House, but in debating the great changes which it was proposed to elfect in our system of government, the effect of them upon that class to which he referred must be con- sidered. Among that class there was no phase or feature of these threatened changes which excited so much alarm as this very question of education. Well, the Minister of Finance had said, with great solemnity, as having the authority of his colle^ues for it, that this session the Government would bring down
amendm^ita to the school laws of Lower Can- ada, which they proposed enacting into law before a change of government should take place, and which would become a permanent settlement of that question. The question he then desired to put was whether they intended to submit these amendments before they asked the House to pass finally upon the other scheme of Confederation, and if so, to state when the House might look for that measure, as it would undoubtedly exercise very consid- erable influence upon the discussion of the Confederation scheme, and probably in the last resort from several members from Lower Can- ada. (Hear, hear.) Then the third question of which he had given notice had reference to the Intercolonial Railway. It was a novelty that, perhaps, might not be found in the con- stitution of any country, to introduce a pro- vision for the construction of a railroad, canals, turnpike roads or other public works. (Laugh- ter.) But the novelty existed in this case, and we are told that a part of the proposed Constitution was to build the Intercolonial Railway, as to the usefulness of which there had been a great difference of opinion amongst members of the House and in the country.
After the dinner recess,
Hox. Mr. HOLTON, continuing his re- marks, said it appeared now to be proposed to make the construction of a railway part of the Constitution of the country. The President of the Council, who had formerly strongly op- posed the Intercolonial Railway, had now be- come so enamoured of it and its adjuncts that he was reported to have declared in a speech at Toronto, that rather than not have* those adjuncts, to wit, the union of all the pro- vinces, which he had also previously opposed as vigorously as the railway itself, he would consent to building six intercolonial rail- ways. (Laughter.) He thought the House was entitled to know what was to be done with re- ference to that railway before they were asked to consider the g\'eat question of which it formed a part. He desired a. so some infor- mation as to the position of the North- West question on which the President of the Coun- cil had always taken strong grounds, main- taining that Canada had a territorial right extending over all that region. He took it for granted the President of the Council still maintained liis position, but he wished to know from him authoritatively the manner in which the Government proposed to deal with the question. He desired, also, some information on the subject of the defences, and what wis to be the measure of our oon-
18
tributions under the proposed scheme for that important object.
Atty. Gex. MACDONALD said the Government would cheerfully give aa answer to Hon. Mr. Holton's que.stions. As to the local constitutions of Upper and Lower Canada, when subordinate provinces of the Confedera- ation, Government proposed to submit to the House a scheme or schemes to be considered by members of Upper and Lower Canada, respecting the constitutions of their respective governments. But the action with regard to them must be the action of Parliament. That action would only be asked after the Con- federation scheme was adopted, for until it was settled that there was to be Confederation, it was idle to discuss what should be the con- stitutions of the sevoral provinces. As to the school question, it had been announced by Hon. Mr. Galt, at Sherbrooke, that before Confeder- ation took place, this Parliament would be asked to consider a measure which he hoped would be satisfactory to all classes of the community. There was a good deal of apprehension in Lower Canada on the part of the minority there as to the possible effect of Confederation on their rights on the subject of education, and it was the intention of the Government, if Parliament approved the scheme of Confedera- tion, to lay before the House this session, certain amendments to the school law, to operate as a sort of guarantee against any in- fringement by the majority of the rights of the minority in this matter.
Hon. a. a. DORION— Will it apply to both Upper and Lower Canada ?
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD said he be- lieved, as regarded Upper Canada, the matter would remain in statu quo, as the present law there was quite satisfactory to the minority. As regarded the Intercolonial Railroad, the resolutions shewed precisely what was the in- tention of the Government in that matter. The railroad was not, as stated by Hon. Mr.HoLTON, a portion of the Constitution, but wah one of the conditions on which the Lower Provinces agreed to enter into the constitutional agree- ment with us. The North-West question he would leave in the hands of the President of the Council, who understood it thoroughly, and could, no doubt, give Hon. Mr. IIolton a satisfactory answer. With respect to the de- fences of tlie province, they were now tlie sub- ject of negotiations with the Imperial (Jovcrn- ment, and the fullest information would be given to tlie House on that subjoet. Ho might mention that the Maritime Provinces, recog- nizing the jtoculiar position of Canada geogra-
phically, and its danger in case of hostilities, had most cordially ;\greed that any sum this Parliament might vote for the defence of Ca- nada, they would undertake their share of.
Mr. WALLBRTDGE a.sked if he was to understand that a guarantee was to be given in the Constitution of the Federal Government to Roman Catholic separate schools ?
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD— I only said this, that before Confederation is adopted, the Government would bring down a mea.sure to amend the school law of Lower Canada, pro- tecting the rights of the minority, and which, at the same time, I believe, would be satisfac- tory to the majority, who have always hitherto shown respect for the rights of the minority, and, no doubt, will continue to do so.
Hon. Mr. BROWN said Hon. Mr. Holton had done no injustieo to him in supposing ho held now precisely the same sentiments on the North- West question he formerly did. He be- lieved it of vast importance that that region should be brought within the limits of civiliza- tion, and vigorous measures had been taken to ascertain what could be done with that view. It was not long since he returned from Eng- land, where the matter was very fully discussed, and he had not as yet had an opportunity of submitting the thing so fully to the Council that a decision could be had ujxtn it. but he had no doubt that in a very short time they would be able to communicate tn the House ample information as to their intentions.
The discussion was then made regular by Atty. Gen. Macdonald formally proposing that an Address be presented to Her Majesty.
Hon. Mr. HOLTON said that the uni- versal law of Parliament vrith respect either to bills or addres-ses looking to the disposal of public property or funds, or additions to the burdens of the country, w:ia that the measure must originate in Committee of the Whole. 'J'his Confederation scheme disjxised of the whole assets of the country, and established burdens which were to bo applied to the pur- poses of the provinces of New Brunswick and Newfoundland, besides paying eighty cents per head ol" po|iula(ion to all the various provinces. This appropriation of property indeed ran threughout the scheme. Not only so, but the usage on alt si ilar occasions wiis to introduce the measure in Committee of the Whole. The act of union between Knglund and Ireland was originated in this way, and m was our own actof uni n in the legislature of Upper Canada under the miinagement of Mr. PouLKT Thompson, who was well known to be an able English parliamentarian. The
19
same course was taken on our own Reform Bill under the HrvcKS Government.
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD said that any measure appropriating money must origi- nate in Committee of the Whole, but it was otherwise with an Address to the Crown, ask- ing to recommend a grant of money. This was an address asking the Crown to make a great constitutional change. Now, supposing that it was asking to have the Constitution done away with altogether, must such an ad- dress originate in committee ? Clearly not. The money to be appropriated was to be granted by legislatures which did not yet exist.
Hon. a. a. DORION— There is nothing more plain than that, according to the stand- ing order of the House of Commons, any measure appropriating money or any Address to the Crown asking for a grant of money, or that expenses may be incurred, mu3t origi- nate in Committee of the Whole. Our own 80th rule was in a similar sense, setting forth that motion? tending to grant an aid or to make any charge upon the people must origi- nate in committee. Now, surely these reso- lutions tended to create a charge upon the people. Among other things they bound the country to make a railway.
Atty. Gen. MACDONALD— That will be made by the Confederate Government, not by this Government. We are not granting any money.
Hon. a. a. DORION— Nor do you ever grant money when you ask the Crown to re- commend the grant, since the Crown may re- fuse ; surely if a matter involving $5 or §50 must originate in committee, so large a mat- ter as this must do so.
Atty. Gen. CARTIER spoke of Hon. Mr. Dorion's remarks as absurd, as not a farthing of money was being appropriated. It was quite true the rule of the Imperial Parliament might seem to go as far as Hon. Mr. DoRiON said, but we had no such rule. Ours was founded on the Union Act, which merely said that no appropriation could be made, except after a Message from His Excellency, which must be referred to a committee. The Union Act was our law, and to-morrow the British Parliament, with the sanction of the Queen, might abolish the Con- stitution.
Mr. DUNKIN— The Attorney General was the very Bayard of defenders of every little corporation which had received its charter from that legislature ; that was of every cor- poration or company which enjoyed his favor, from none of which he would take away the
smallest part of the privileges ever conferred upon them, and yet he asserted that the whole privileges and rights of this great colony could be taken away to-moiTOW by the Imperial Par- liament. He (Mr. Dcnkin) denied that all our rights were held at pleasure, but, if they were, that had nothing to do with the matter. If we were precluded from giving away small sums of money, except in a particular way, surely we were debarred from giving away all our rights. The British Parliament could de- clare that a man is a woman, and he must thereafter legally be called a woman, but that did not make him one.
Hon. Mr. GALT said clearly no charge was put on the people by this Address ; not a penny could be taken out of the public chest in consequence of it. He thought also the spirit of the rules was no more infringed than their letter, by taking the course proposed by the Attorney General West ; because, if the Address passed, the Imperial Act would refer again to the people tlie power of disposing of this property by their votes.
Mr. SPEAKER decided as follows :—
The honorable member for Chateauguay has submitted that the motion is not in order, *' inas- much as the proposed Address prays the Crown to recommend to the Imperial Parliament the passage of an Act laying new burdens on the people of this Province, and making dispositions as to the public property and money of this Province, the law of Parliament requires that it should be founded on Resolutions originated in Committee of the whole House." Now, the 4th clause of the 14th section of the Consolidated Statutes ot Canada, " The Legislative Assembly shall not originate or pass any Vote, Resolution or Bill for the appropriation of any part of the said Consolidated Revenue Fund, or of any other tax or impost, to any purpose which has not been first recommended by a Message of the Governor to the Legislative Assembly, during the Session in which such Vote, Resolution or Bill is passed ;" and the 88th Rule of this House, " If any motion be made in the House for any public aid or charge upon the people, the consideration and debate thereof may not be presently entered upon, but shall be adjourned till such further day as the House shall think fit to appoint; and then it shall be referred to a Committee of the whole House before any Resolution or Vote of the House do pass thereupon," which seems to be based thereon, refer to Resolutions or to an Address upon which some future action of this House is to be based. I fail to see in this motion that the action of this House is to be involved any further after passing this Resolution. As this matter was discussed before I left the chair, at six o'clock, I took occasion to put in writing my opinion upon the subject. I will read : " The motion is for an Addreea to Her Majesty, in which
20
the Resolutions on Confederation of the Provinces are set out. How does this differ from an Addresa moved to His Excellency, which always comes on motion upon a two days' notice given as in this case ? I cannot see how, as a point of Order, I can treat the matter other than as in the ordinary c:ise of an Address. The argument is that it will be inconvenient so to discuss it. That is not addressed to a question of Order, but to one of convenience. The case cited by the h(>norable member for Chateaucruay of Resolutions upon the question of a Hill for the Government of India was not one of Resolutions for an Address, but of Resolutions simply, containing- (he pro- posed principles of the Bill intendf^d to be intro- duced. It is not pretended here that this House has any ri;(ht to pass such a Bill, or that it is intended to present one on that subject here. The reasons why it is convenient to discuss matters in the form of a Resolution on which a Bill is after- wards to be introduced, is that Resolutions more easily admit of alteration. The Government have expressed their determination not to admit of any alterations in these Resolutioni. Thus it is obvious that the same reasons for going into Committee do not hold. The member who moves an Address can force the vote on his motion in the manner he has put it, unless the form of it be changed by amendment, and this appears to be the only course open here. In truth the word 'Resolutions' might very well have been omitted altoirethcr from this motion. Whatever might have been the result on a mere question of convenience, it is certain that the Speaker does not decide that matter. His duties are to preserve order and decorum, and to decide questions of Order."
Attt. Gen. MACPONALD moved that the debate be adjourned and made the first order for Monday after half-past seven o'clock, p.m.
Hon. Mr. HOLTON raise 1 the objection that this motion could not be put without two days' notice
Attt. Okn. MACDONALD said if this was the sort of tactics to be pursued, and an attempt made to eoibarrass the Government at every step, he mast withdraw the conces- sion made to thf. member for IVel, and would giv<! notice thai ho would move on Tuesday, that thj debate be coutinui.d from day to day until the .\ddre83 was finally adopted or rejected by the IIoufc.
After some discussion, Hon. Mr. HoLTON with<lrew his obj ction, and Atty. Gen. Macdonald his notice.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
Monday, February 6, 1865.
Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL said that, with the permission of the honorable member who had the floor (Hon. Mr. Curriz), he would offer a few remarks upon one portion of tho scheme of Confederation, to which allusion had been specially made in the House, and which, to a limited extent, had occupied the attention of the country. He referred to tho proposed constitution of the Legislative Coun- cil under that scheme ; and in offering the reasons which had led the Canadian Govern- ment and the other members of the Confer- ence, which, as honorable members knew, was composed of the leading men in tho legisla- tures of the several provinces — the leading men in opposition as well as the leading men in office — to decide as they had done, he begged the House to believe that the decision had not been arrived at hastily, but iifter prolonged and anxious discussion, and after a full and careful consideration of the subject. It was not to be supposed that the Government of Canada had itself laid down the scheme of the constitution as embraced in the resolutions on the table of the House. Honorable gentle- men must not misunderstand him. He did not mean to say that the Government did not heartily concur in and adopt the scheme, but that it was not its work alone, but that of the delegates from the other provinces as well. It was the result of deliberation, acoommo- dation and compromise. When it became necessary for the Government to press the resolutions, he trusted honorable members would not suppose that they did so out of that love which people have for the creation of their own intellect, but would remember they were the joint production of the gentle- men t^) whom he alluded, and that any per- tinacity on his part arose from a sense of the sacrifices they had made to secure an agree- ment, and tlie difficulties which any failure now would create. He felt it had been im- possible for the Conference to arrive at any other understanding, and he only wished that those who looked with dislavor ujvm their plan, could have witnos.sed the anxious debutes held at Charlottct<iwn and Quebec before it was finally settled. The result arrived Ht would, he hoped, promote tho welfare of the jirovinoes interest<'d, and be remembered with gratitude by their inhabitjuits many long yearn hencu. |Aud suppusing this Cliamber and the other^were to^come to a different opinion
21
and reject the resolutions, what would be the effect ? The Bacrifices and com- promises submitted to by the representa- tives of the several provinces would go for nothing ; the efforts of the eminent men who had put aside personal and party differences to accomplish what they deemed a great and good work would be futile ; and yet, by such men only cotdd such a scheme have been devised and matured. Considering then the earnest efforts made to secure this agreement, and the improbability that, if rejected, any other could be attempted with better hope of success, he felt he had a right to ask the House to give the subject a fair, patient, and favor- able consideration. If an amendment were proposed here, and another there, and espe- cially if the provision respecting the constitu- tion of the House were changed, it was pretty certain that the whole thing would miscarry, for he well knew that in respect of this point the legislatures of the Lower Provinces would come to a different conclusion. If the elective principle were insisted upon in Canada, and its Government bound over to maintain it, even though another Conference were called, no agreement could be expected, for as he had already said, the delegates from the other provinces would be sure to be charged with exactly different instructions. And as of this particular point, so of a hundred others, until it would be utterly impossible again to arrive at anything like unanimity. As the honorable member for Brock had so well said on a previous evening, any failure now would be extremely damaging to our credit abroad. It was well kown that the fact of our public men having thrown aside their political partizanship for the ptirpose of advancing the welfare of the country, the holding of the Conference, and the agreement secured, had already done us a great deal of good at home. But not onlv would this first fruit of the work be forfeited, but an injury more than correspond- ingly great would follow. (Hear, hear.) [The honorable member elaborated this idea at some length with the view of showing the beneficial effect the adoption of the scheme of Confed- eration had produced, and the disasterous consequence-! which its rejection by Parlii- ment must inevitably entail.] He did not propose to follow his honorable friend the Premier in the discussion of the merits of the project as a whole ; the able manner in which that honorable member had presented it could not but have commended itself to every can- did mind. (Hear, hear.) He (Hon. Mr. CAMP- BELL) would, however, take up the point to
which he had alluded at the commencement, and from which he had for a moment digressed, and give the reasons which had induced the Conference to determine as they had done, upon the constitution of the Upper House. And the main reason was to give each of the provinces adequate security for the protection of its local interests, a protection which it was feared might not be found in a House where the representation was based upon num- bers only, as would be the case in the General Assembly. The number ^of representatives to the Legislative Council under the Federal constitution would be limited, and they would be appointed for life instead of elf cted by the people. For the purpose of securing equality in that House, the Confederation would be divided into two sections, viz. : Upper Canada, Lower Canada, and the Maritime Pro^^nce3, and each of these sections would send twenty- four members to the House. In Upper Ca- nada, as had been stated lately by an honor- able member, the population has increased very rapidly, and would probably go on in- creasins' in a much larcer ratio tuan that of Lower Canada or the other provinces, and if the Legislative Council were elective, the time might come when the people of that section would fancy themselve entitled to an increased representation in the Council, and commerce to agitate for it. They might object to the fishing bounties paid the Lower Province, to the money expended there in fortifications, or to something else, and claim a representation in the Council, more in accordance witli their population to enforce their views ; and in view of such contingencies the delegates from those provinces conceived it would not be safe to trust their rights to an elective House. It was then determined that in one branch there wouW be a fixed number "f members nominated by the Crown, to enable it to act as a counterpoise to the branch in which the principle of representation accord- ing to population would be recognized. It miglit be said that the principL.^ of limita- tion of numbers could have been adopted, and that of election preserved. Well, he did not say the scheme was perfect, but it was the best that could be devised, and a < the Lower Provinces felt the danger from thei • inferiority of numbers, being only 800,000 ag dust double that number in Upper Canada alone, it wa« essential that the security which a fixed repre- sentation in the Council afforded to them should be acceded to. The Conference acted upon the conviction that they wei e not build- ing a gtruoture fpr a temporary purpose, but,
22
&8 they hoped, for centuries, and knowing how the doctrine of representation according to population had operated in distracting the popular branch of the Legislature in Canada, they endeavored to provide against a similarly disturbing cause in the Confederation. And their precaution appeared to him to be founded in wisdom and justice. For the sake of argu- ment let it be supposed that the elective prin- ciple is maintained, and that the limit of numbers now proposed, viz., 24 members for each of the three grand sections in the Council is also fixed ; let it be supposed further, that the population of Upper Canada continues to augment as in the past, what may not be that of the Saugeen, Tecumseth and Eastern Divi- sions (which now have 1.30,000, 90,000 and 60,000 respectively) forty or fifty years hence ? And is it not possible, nay, would it not be like- ly, that these great constituences, when compar- ing them with the divisions in Prince Edward Island, numbering some twenty thousand to twenty-five thousand souls, would be disposed to set up claims for additional representation ? Who that looks to the future will say that with an elective Upper House the Constitution will last? It was the apprehension of danger to it€ permanency that decided the Conference to adopt the principle of nomination to the superior branch, and it was the only way which suggested itself for averting it. And he must say for himself, that he fully and entirely concurred in the decision. He felt that the principle of election kept alive agerm of doubt as to the security of the Lower Pro- vinces, and he was glad that a way was found of removing it altogether. It was well known that even in the United States, where there was 80 prevalent a disposition to submit everything to the decision of the people, the principle of limitation to the Uppor House was so fully recognized and settled by the Constitution, that no attempt was ever made to change it. In this way the smallest state, like Rhode Island, was a^ I'ully represented as the state of New York. And if that was considered necessary in a country so compact together as the United States, how much more would it not be proper in a Confedera- tion, some of the sections of which wero sepa- rated from each other by long, narrow strips ol' land, or wide estuaries, with small repre- sentation in the popular branch, and looking chiefly to their equality in the Upper Cliainber for security for local rights and intercstw and institutions. He was gratified, upon another ground, that this decision had been attained, and this was on the ground of the respect ho |
bore to the life-members of this Chamber. In the law which hiid made the House elective there was no wL«er provision than that which had guaranteed the seat of the members ap- pointed by the Crown, who then composed it. He had always felt the great advantage of the jjresence of those honorable members here. If the elective system had entirely superseded the nominated House, removed those gentle- men and brought together forty-eight entirely new members, the country would have suffered a grievous loss ; but the old members kept their places and the new ones came in twelve at a time, two years apart, so that the change from one system to the other was effected without any injury. The nominated members had retained their influence, and the tone of calnmcss and gravity which had obtained in their deliberations was insensibly acquired by the elective members as they came in, to the manifest advantage of the House. We (speaking of the elected members ) had picked up the spirit of, and the instruction the Crown members were so fully competent to give us, and so had been enabled to discharge our duties in a way we could not possibly have done if had we been left to ourselves. If the life-members had been deprived of their seats, it was not probable that many, if any of them, would have sought a restoration to them by the elective process, for they were generally gentlemen of wealth, position, and delicacy of feeling, whose habits of mutu:il deference, quietness and order, would have unfitted them, or made them averse to face the turmoil and excitement of the unfavorable electioneering contests. These honorable gentlemen, under an elective system, must have been deprived of their seats, and their servicuvs have been lost to the country ; whilst under the nominative system they will stand on the same footing as the other members of thw Hou.se, and have a fair representation along with the members holding their s»^ats by election in tlie Legislative Council of the Confederate Parliament. ( Hear, hear. ) Pass- ing on to anotlier jxnnt, ho would retnark that some persons had asked what would hv done if the two Chambers of the Confederation came into collision ? He had already re- marked that the L(^i.slative Council was intended as a counterpoiHC to the weight of numbers in the Assembly, but such a count('r|>oisc did not nccesi^arily imply tlio probability of collision. It was not likely that 1 the two branches would ct>mu into such collision upon minor subject**, or .subjeet.s of minor iui- jKirtance, for two such bodies .should not, lor
^3
the mero sake of resistance, oppose each other in such a way ; they would not venture to do it. He did not remember that there had been any really difficult matter of this kind for a long time. This House had rejected the Squatters' Bill, as it was called, seven or eight times after it had been passed by the Assem- bly, but that had not impaired the good un- derstanding between them. Indeed the effect had been of the best. The hon. life-member from Cobourg [Hon. Mr. Boulton], whom he did not see in his place, had, by the force of reasoning, convinced the House that the bill was destructive of the rights of property, and the consequence was that, year by year, the measure had been pruned of its most of- fensive features, until now, as he was informed, it was hardly open to objection. He could not recall another instance of persistent difference of opinion between the Chambers. The real danger of collision would be where one Cham- ber invaded the prerogatives of the other, and that danger, if it existed at all, would be great- ly increased were the Legislative Council made elective. (Hear, hear.) If the members were elected they might say, " We come from the people just as dii'ectly as the members of the Assembly do, and our authority is, therefore, as full and complete as theirs. Nay,more,for where we each represent 1000 electors, they only each represent 300, and we have, therefore, as much right to initiate money bills and impost bills as they have." Make the Council purely elective, and he would not promise that an agitation of this kind would not spring up. It had not been a theme as yet on the floor of the House, but it was well known that it had been freely discussed in th corridors, and if the subject had not beeu formally introduced, it was probably because it was thought by those who debated it that they could not rely upon the life-members. (Lear, hear.) Let the Council propose to deal with taxation and the elective system would be sure in the course of time to urge it on to do so, and im- mediately the spirit of the Assembly would be aroused to resistance. This would be the way to provoke collisions, and with an elective Council it was not unlikely at all to be. resort- ed to. In England, where the Uppci- House was composed of a class entirely distinct from the Commons, and having interests, as a general thing, diverse from those of the peo- ple, even there the collisions between the two branches had been but infrequent. Indeed there had been only one very serious collision in the course of centuries. When, howovei, such conjunctures arose, the crown overcame
them by the appointment of a sufficient nutn- ber of peers whose political views accorded with those of the government. The right to sit in the House of Lords being, however, hereditary, the son generally inherited the politics of his father, and so tho character of the body was always pretty well understoo 1 ; but be it what it might, and as much as possible removed from popular influences, it had yet learnc'] so far to respect the will of the people as to know when to make concession of its own opinions. He did not say that it bowed to every breeze and instantly yielded to every demand, nor did he think that any Legislative Upper Chamber should do so, and be content merely to reflect the temper and complexion of the other branch. On the con- trary, he held that when it had good and sufficient evidence, sufficient to satisfy itself that a proposed measure was unjust, it was bound to resist, and public opinion which generally came out right in the end, would sustain it in such an attitude. But there waa very much less danger in countries like this that difference of opinion would even be as frequent between the Legislative Chambers as between the Lords and Commons in England, and the reason was clear : our Legislative Coimcillors would not come from so different a class of society to the general population, as the peers of the British nation, compared with the people of that nation. The lords had ideas of caste and privileges which none of our people were imbrued with, and the common sympathy existing between all classes here would be felt equally by the Legislative Councillors and the Members of the Assembly... Both would be equally subjected to popular influences and be more or less controlled by them. The interests of the Legislative Coun- cillor, though a nominee of the Crown, would be the same as those of the mass, and the legislation which would be good for them would, as a general thing, be good for him too. He would have no ancestral estates, privileges, immunities and titles to protect, like the peers of England. He would be affected by the social changes which affected others, and would be moved by the same aims and aspiratious as his friends around him. This being the case, it was not very probable that his opinions would even be set in opposi- tion to those of other men as to make it likely that he would come in collision with them, or that, as a House, the Council would be in danger of a serious quarrel with the Assembly. Then the changes which time would inevitably bring about in a body like the proposed Legi»-
24
lative Council, would be sufficiently great to prevent the possibility of a continued antagon- ism between it and the other branch, if unhap- pily it should arise. The demise, the resigna- tion and the loss of seat from other causes, would do this, and afford the Government of the day the opportunity of so reconstructing the House as to bring it more in harmony with public sentiment. He did not say it was desirable that at all times the Legislative Council should be a reflection of such opinion, though it was, of course, desirable that it should not continue violently to shock it. He would have that House conservative, calm, considerate and watchful, to prevent the enact- ment of measures which, in its deliberate judg- ment, were not calculated to advance the com- mon weal. Any more rapid changes in the composition of the House than those he now indicated, he did not consider wholesome or desirable. From the history of the present Chamber for the last few years, it would bo seen that such changes, whether among the life members or the elected members, were much more frequent than might be generally supposed. According to the present elective system twelve members went out and twelve came in every second year. Supposing that a collision had taken place between the two branches of the Legislature, and that it was de- sirable to bring the Council more in accord with the representatives of the people, under this system, the same members might be returned, not because of the soundness of their political opinions on the topic which had brought about the collision, perhaps without the slightest reference to it, but from their position and their exertions. One might come back be- cause ho WHS a wealthy man and had a social position which gave him a large influence, another because he was an able canvasser and well versed in election tactics, and others from causes equally removed from the political (question upon which the two Houses of Par- liament were in antagonism. But suppose the twelve scats were at the disposal of the Governmeni, nnd that an irreconcilable difl'er- ence had fxistod between the two Houses, would they not have the opjx)rtunity of re- di-ess at once and thoroughly by bringing in tAvelve raeinbers who would harmonize better in opinion with them and the country ? Undoubtedly. Well, within eight years the ^/'changes among the life-members had boon as follows: — When the House was made elective, there were 40 such members in it; two years af't«rwiirdit. ut the c;l11 of the House, the num- ber was found i-edueed to 31 ; two year* after
that again to 26 ; in two years more, to 24 ; and to-day to 21, of which 21, one honorable member was now seriously indisposed. In eight years, then, the number had been dimin- ished by half. Then changes nearly as great had occurred among the elected members. There had been 24 removals and changes by death and otherwise among the.se 48 ; and it should be remembered, that as the elected members came in by twelves, two years apart, the aver- age time had been only four years. This was sufficient to show the opportunity which, ev^en among younger men than the life-members, the Government would have of keeping the House in accord with the true interests of the country, or of overcoming any unfortunate misunderstanding between the two branches. > [The honorable member here went minutely into a statement of the changes effected by death, acceptance of office, and defeat at elections, among this class of members, which, however, we do not deem it neces- sary to specify.] These changes had ' cer- tainly altered, to .some extent, the com- plexion of tho House, and the future would, no doubt, be like the past in this respect. The Conference had taken all tliese things into consideration, and wisely concluded, as he believed, that while the chauces of collision were much less under tho nominative system, the opportunity of restoring harmonious action was inlinitely more prompt and effec- tive, and that there waa no such danger of collisons between the two branches of the General Legishiture, as to make it a bar to the principle of nomination, which principle, in their judgment, offered the compensating advantage he had endeavored, in the earlier part of his observations, to point out. He sincerely hoped the House would concur in the views he had expressed, and would accept the measure now before them, as one M-hich ho believed calculated to promote the beet interests of this country and tho other pro- vinces, and to hand down to posterity a con- stitution analogous, as nearly as might bo, to that of the empire under whose protection wo had the happiness to live — a Constitution cal- culated further, as he was fully convinced, to perpetuate the connection between these colo- nies and that mighty nation, to the mutual benefit of both. (Hear, hear, and applause.) Hon. Mr. VIDAL here inquired from the honorable member why it was thai tho selection of Legislative Councillors from Lower Canada, in the Confederation schomo, was to bo left to the Local Government of that section of the province, while no such provision existed with
25
respect to Upper Canada or the Lower Pro- vinces.
Hox. Mr. CA3IPBELL said it was out of deference to tlie interests of the British Cana- dians of Lower Canada, who had some fear that they might not be sufficiently protected otherwise.
Hon. Mr. RYAN objected to this mode of selection, as calculated to perpetuate differences of nationality and creed, and thought it would be better to leave the selection unconditionally to the Crown.
[Aftet this a number of questions were put to Hon. Mr. Campbell upon various points of detail, and a cross fire was kept up from both sides of the House, which made it next to impossible to keep track of the proceedings.
Among the questions asked was one as to whether the local governments should be con- stituted before the Constitution of the Confe- deration became law. The resolution concern- ing this point seemed involved and contradic- toi-y, as it supposed some part of the plan to be in force, which depended upon the action of local governments not themselves in exist- ence.]
Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL promised to give an explanation at the next sitting of the House.
Hon. Mr. SANBORN then addressed the House for a few minutes, it being then nearly six o'clock. He did not declare himself directly opposed to the scheme as a whole, but believed that the abandonment of the elective principle in respect of the Legislative CouncU was a step backward and an unwise one. He quoted as a proof the opinion of the Premier of the Government expressed two years ago, and thought it not a little strange he should so readUy have changed his views —
Cries of six o'clock.
Further debate was then postponed until the morrow, and the House immediately afterwards adjourned.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.
Monday^ February 6, 1865.
Attorney General MACDONALD moved, '* That an humble Address be pre- sented to Her Majesty, praying that She may be graciously pleased to cause a meas- ure to be submitted to the Imperial Parlia- ment, for the purpose of uniting the Colonies of Canada, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, and Prince Edward Island,
5
in one Government, with provisions based on certain Resolutions, which were adopted at a Conference of Delegates from the said Colonies, held at the city of Quebec, on the 10th October, 1864."* He said:— Mr. Speaker, in fulfilment of the promise made by the Government to Parliament at its last session, I have moved this resolution. I have had the honor of being charged, on behalf ot the Government, to submit a scheme for the Confederation of all the British North American Provinces — a scheme which has been received, lam glad to say, with general, if not universal, approbation in Canada. The scheme, as propounded through the press, has received almost no opposition. While there may be occasionally, here and there, expressions of dissent from some of the details, yet the scheme as a whole has met with almost universal approval, and the Government has the greatest satisfaction in presenting it to this House. This subject, which now absorbs the attention of the peo- ple of Canada, and of the whole of British North America, is not a new one. For years it has more or less attracted the attention of every statesman and politician in these prov- inces, and has been looked upon by many far-seeing politicians as being eventually the means of deciding and settling very many of the vexed questions which have retarded the prosperity of the colonies as a whole, and particularly the prosperity of Canada. The subject was pressed upon the public at- tention by a great many writers and politi- cians ; but I believe the attention of the Legislature was first formally called to it by my honorable friend the Minister of Finance. Some years ago, in an elaborate speech, my hon. friend, while an independent member of Parliament, before being connected with any Government, pressed his views on the Legislature at great length and with his usual force. But the subject was not taken up by any party as a branch of their policy, until the formation of the Cartier-Mac- DONALD Administration in 1858, when the Confederation of the colonies was announced as one of the measures which they pledged themselves to attempt, if possible, to bring to a Satisfactory conclusion. In pursuance of that promise, the letter or despatch, which has been so much and so freely commented upon in the press and in this House, was addressed by three of the members of that Administration to the Colonial Office. The
• For. Resolutions, see Legislative Council, page 1,
26
subject, however, though looked upon with faror by the country, and though there were no distiLct expressions of opposition to it from any party, did not begin to assume its present proportions until last session. Then, men of all parties and all shades of politics became alarmed at the aspect of affairs. They found that such was the opposition between the two sections of the province, such was the danger of impending anarchy, in consequence of the irreconcilable differ- ences of opinion, with respect to representa- tion by population, between Upper and Lower Canada, that unless some solution of the difficulty was arrived at, we would suffer under a succession of weak governments, — weak in numerical support, weak in force, and weak in power of doing good. All were alarmed at this state of affairs. We had election after election, — we had ministry after ministry, — with the same result. Par- ties were so equally balanced, that the vote of one member might decide the fate of the Administration, and the course of legislation for a year or a series of years. This con- dition of things was well calculated to arouse the earnest consideration of every lover of his country, and 1 am happy to say it had that eflect. None were more impressed by this momentous state of affairs, and the grave apprehensions that existed of a state of anarchy destroying our credit, destroying our prosperity, destroying our progress, tlian were the members of ttiis present House ; and the leading statesmen on both sides seemed to have come to the common con- clusion, that some step must be taken to re- lieve the country from the dead-lock and impending anarchy that hung over us. — Witli that view, my colleague, the Presi- dent of the Council, made a motion founded on the despatch addressed to the Colonial Minister, to which 1 have referred, and a committee was struck, composed of gentlemen of both sides of the House, of all sliades of political opinion, without any reference to whether they were supporters of the Admin- istration of the day or belonged to the Opposi- tion, for the purpose of taking into calm and full deliberation the evils wliich tlir«4iitened the future of Canada. That motion of my honorable friend resulted most happily. The coiuiuittee, by a wise provision, — and in order tliat each uieuibcr of the committee might have an opportunity ot expressing his opinions without being in any way compro- mis«d before the public, or with his party, iu
regard either to his political friends or to his political foes, — agreed that the discussion should be freely entered upon without refer- ence to the political antecedents of any of them, and that they should sit with closed doors, so that they might be able to approach the subject frankly and in a spirit of compro- mise. The committee included most of the leading members of the House, — I had the honor myself to be one of the number, — and the result was that there was found an ardent desire — a creditable desire, I must say, — dis- played by all the members of the committee to approach the subject honestly, and to at- tempt to work out some solution which might relieve Canada from the evils under which she labored. The report of that committee was laid before the House, and then came the political action of the leading men of the two parties in this House, which ended in the formation of the present Government. The principle upon which that Government was formed has been announced, and is known to all. It was formed for the very purpose of carrying out the object which has now re- ceived to a certain degree its completion, by the resolutions I have had the honor to place iu your hands. As has been stated, it was not without a great deal of difficulty and reluct- ance that that Government was formed. The gentlemen who compose this Government had for many years been engaged in political hos- tilities to such an extent that it affected even their social relations. But the crisis was great, the danger was imminent, and the gen- tlemen who now form the present Adminis- tration found it to be their duty to lay aside all personal feelings, to sacrifice in some degree their position, and even to run the risk of having their motives impugned, for the sake of arriving at some conclusion tliat would be satisfactory to the country iu general. The present resolutions were the result. And, as 1 said before, I am proud to believe that the country has sanctioned, as I trust that the re- presentatives of the people in this llouso will sanction, the scheme which is now submitted for the future governuieut of British North America. (Cheers.) Everything soomod to favor the project, and everything .x«cnied to shew that the present was the time, if ever, when this great union between all Her Majes- ty's subjects dwelling in British North Amer- ica, should bo earned out. (Hear, hoar.) When the Oovornmeut was ioruied, it v/rh felt that the ditficulties in the way of effecting a uuiou betwtttiu all thu British North Amer-
S7
ican Colonies were great — so great as almost, in the opinion of many, to make it hopeless. And with that view it was the policy of the Governmentjif they could not succeed in pro- curing a union between all the British North American Colonies, to attempt to free the country from the dead-lock in which we were placed in Upper and Lower Canada, in conse- quence of the difference of opinion between the two sections, by having a severance to a certain extent of the present union between the two provinces of Upper and Lower Can- ada, and the substitution of a Federal Union between them. Most of us, however, I may say, all of us,were agreed — and I believe every thinking man will agree — as to the expedi- ency of effecting a union between all the pro- vinces, and the superiority of such a design, if it were only practicable, over the smaller scheme of having a Federal Union between Upper and Lower Canada alone. By a happy concurrence of events, the time came when that proposition could be made with a hope of success. By a fortunate coincidence the de- sire for union existed in the Lower Provinces, and a feeling of the necessity of strengthening themselves by collecting together the scat- tered colonies on the sea-board, had induced them to form a convention of their own for the purpose of effecting a union of the Mari- time Provinces of Nova Scotia, New Bruns- wick, and Prince Edward Island, the legisla- tures of those colonies having formally autho- rized their respective governments to send a delegation to Prince Edward Mand for the purpose of attempting to form a union of some kiod. "Whether the union should be federal or legislative was not then indicated, but a union of some kind was sought for the pur- pose of making of themselves one people in- stead of three. We, ascertaining that they were about to take such a step, and knowing that if we allowed the occasion to pass, if they did indeed break up all their present political organizations and form a new one, it could not be expected that they would again readily destroy the new organization which they had formed, — the union of the three provinces on the sea-board, — and form another with Can- ada. Knowing this, we availed ourselves of the opportunity, and asked if they would re- ceive a deputation from Canada, who would go to meet them at Charlottetown, for the purpose of laying before them the advantages of a larger and more extensive union, by the junction of all the provinces in one great gov- I ^rnment under our common Sovereign. They j
at once kindly consented to receive and hear us. They did receive us cordially and gener- ously, and asked us to lay our views before them. We did so at some length, and so sat- isfactory to them were the reasons we gave ; so clearly, in their opinion, did we shew the ad- vantages of the greater union over the lesser, that they at once set aside their own project, and joined heart and hand with us in entering into the larger scheme, and trying to form, as far as they and we could, a great nation and a strong government. (Cheers.) Encouraged by this arrangement, which, however, was al- together unofficial and unauthorized, we re- turned to Quebec, and then the Grovernment of Canada invited the several governments of the sister colonics to send a deputation here from each of them for the purpose of consid- ering the question, with something like au- thority from their respective governments. The result was, that when we met here on the 10 th of October, on the first day on which we assembled, aft^r the full and free discussions which had taken place at tharlottetown, the first resolution now before this House was passed unanimously, being received with ac- clamation as, in the opinion of every one who heard it, a proposition which ought to receive, and would receive, the sanction of each gov- ernment and each people. The resolution is, " That the best interests and present and fu- ture prosperity of British North America will be promoted by a Federal Union under the Crown of G-reat Britain, provided such union can be effected on principles just to the several provinces." It seemed to all the statesmen assembled — and there are great statesmen in the Lower Provinces, men who would do honor to any government and to any legislature of any free country enjoying re- presentative institutions— -it was clear to them all that the best interests and present and fu- ture prosperity of British North America would be promoted by a Federal Union under the Crown of Great Britain. And it seems to me, as to them, and I think it will so appear to the people of this country, that, if we wish to be a great people ; if we wish to form — using the expression which was sneered at the other evening — a great nationality, commanding the respect of the world, able to hold our own against all opponents, and to defend those institutions we prize : if we wish to have one system of government, and to establish a com- mercial union, with unrestricted free trade, between people of the five provinces, belong- ing, as they do, to the same nation, obeying
28
the Bame Sovereign, owning the same alle- giance, and being, for the most part, of the same blood and lineage : if we wish to be able to aflford to each otbcr the means of mutual defence and support against aggression and attack — this can only be obtained by a union of some kind between the scattered and weak boundaries composing the British North American Provinces. (Cheers). The very mention of the scheme is fitted to bring with it its own approbation. Supposing that in the spring ofthe year 1865, half a million of people were coming from the United Kingdom to make Canada their home, although they brought only their strong arms and wijling hearts ; though they brought neither skill nor experience nor wealth, would we not receive them with open arms, and hail their presence in Canada as an important addition to our strength ? But when, by the proposed union, we not only get nearly a million ot people t j join us — when they contribute not only their numbers, their physical strength, and their desire to benefit their position, but when we know that they consist of old-established com- munities, having a large amount of realized wealth, — composed of people possessed of skill, education and experience iu the way.s of the New World — people who are as much Canadians, I may say, us we are — people who are imbued with the same feelings of loyalty io the Queen, and the same desire for the continuance of the connection with the Mother Country as we are, and at the same time, have a like feeling of ardent at- tachment for this, our com.uoa country, for which they and we would alike fight and shed our blood, if necessary. When all this is considered, argument is needless to prove the advantage of such a union. (Hear, hear.) There were only three modes, — if I may re- turn lor a mument to the difficulties with which Canada was surrounded, — only three modes that were at all suggested, by which the dead lock in our affairs, the anarchy we dreaded, and the evi's which retarded our prosperity, could be met or averted. One was the dissolution of the union between Upper and Lower Canada, leaving them as they were before the union of 1841. I believe that that proposition, by itself had no supporters. It was felt by every one that, although it was a course that would do away with the sectional difliculties which existed, — though it would remove the pressure on the part ofthe people of Upper Canada for the ropreef^ntation bnsod upon
population, — and the jealousy of the people of Lower Canada lest their institutions should be attacked and prejudiced by that principle in our representation ; yet it was felt by every thinking man in the province that it would be a retrograde step, which would throw back the country to nearly the same position as it occupied before the union, — that it would lower the credit enjoyed by United Canada, — that it would be the break- ing up of the connection which had existed for nearly a quarter of a century, and, under which, although it had not been completely successful, and had not allayed altogether the local jealousies that had their root in circum- stances which arose before the union, our province, as a whole, had nevertheless pros- pered and increased. It was felt that a dis- solution of the union would have destroyed all the credit that we had gained by being a united province, and would have left us two weak and inefi"ective governments, instead of one powerful and united people. (Hear, hear.) The next mode suggested, was the granting of representation by population. Now, we all know the manner in which that question was and is regarded by Lower Canada; that while in Upper Canada the desii'e and cry for it was daily augmenting, the resistance to it in Lower Canada was pro- portionably increasing in strength. Still, if some such means of relieving us from the sectional jealousies which existed between the two Canadas, if some such solution of the difficulties as Confederation had not been found, the representation by population must eventually have been carried ; no matter though it might have been felt in Lower Canada, as being a breach of the Treaty of Union, no matter how much it might have bee'j felt by the Lower Canadians that it would sacrifice their local interests, it is cer- tain that in the progros- of events represen- tation by population would have been car- ried; and, had it been carried — I speak here my own individual sentiments — I do not think it would have been for the inter- est of Upper Canada. For though Upper Canada would have felt that it had reooived what it claimed as a right, and had succeed in establishing its ight, ^et it would have lei't the Lower Province with a sullen feel- ing of injury and injustice. The Lower <'afnulians would not have worked cheer- fully under such a change ol system, but would have ceased to bo what they are now — a nationality, with representatives
29
inParliament, governed by general principles, and dividing according to their political opin- ions— and would have been in great danger of becoming a faction, forgetful of national obligations, and only actuated by a desire to defend their own sectional interests, their own laws, and their own institutions. (Hear,hear.) The third and only means of solution for our difficulties was the junction of the provinces either in a Federal or a Legislative Union. Now, as regards the comparative advantages of a Legislative and a Federal Union, I have never hesitated to state my own opinions. I have again and again stated in the House, that, if practicable, I thought a Legislative Union would be preferable. (Hear, hear.) I have always contended that if we could agree to have one government and one par- liament, legislating for the whole of these peoples, it would be the best, the cheapest, the most vigorous, and the s*^rongest system of government we could adopt. (Hear, hear.) But, on looking at the subject in the Con- ference, and discussing the matter as we did, most unreservedly, and with a desire to ar- rive at a satisfactory conclusion, we found that such a system was impracticable. In the first place, it would not meet the assent of the people of Lower Canada, because they felt that in their peculiar position — being in a minority, with a diflFercnt language, nationality and religion from the majority, — in case of a junction with the other pro- vinces, their institutions and their laws might be assailed, and their sncestral asso- ciations, on which they prided themselves, attacked and prejudiced ', it was found that any proposition which involved the absorp- tion of the individuality of Lower Canada — if I may use the expression — would not be received with favor by her people. We found too, that though their people speak the same language and enjoy the same sys- tem of law as the people of Upper Canada, a system founded on the common law of Eng- land, there was as great a disinclination on the part of the various Maritime Provinces to lose their individuality, as separate political organizations, as we observed in the case of Lower Canada herself. (Hear, hear.) There- fore, we were forced to the conclusion that we must either abandon the idea of Unioa altogether, or devise a system of union in which the separate provincial organizations would be in some degree preserved. So that those who were, like myself, in favor of a Legislative Union, were obliged to modify
their views and accept the project of a Federal Union as the only scheme prac- ticable, even for the Maritime Provinces. Because, although the law of those prov- inces is founded on the common law of England, yet every one of them has a large amount pf law of its own — colonial law framed by itself, and affecting every relation of life, such as the laws of property, muni- cipal and assessment laws ; laws relating to the liberty of the subject, and to all the great interests contemplated in legislation } we found, in short, that the statutory law of the different provinces was so vai-ied and diversified that it was almost impossible to weld them into a Legislative Union at once. Why, sir, if you only consider the innumer- able subjects of legislation peculiar to new countries, and that every one of those five colonies had particular laws of its own, to which its people have been accustomed and are attached, you will see the difficulty of effecting and working a Legislative Union, and bringing about an assimilation of the local as well as general laws of the whole of the provinces. (Hear, hear.) We in Upper Canada understand from the nature and operation of our peculiar municipal law, of which we know the value, tlie diffi- culty of framing a general system of legisla- tion on local matters which would meet the wishes and fulfil the requirements of the sev- eral provinces. Even the laws considered the least important, respecting private rights in timber, roads, fencing, and innumerable other matters, small in themselves, but in the ag- gregate of great interest to the agricultural class, who form the great body of thd people, are regarded as of great value by the portion of the community affected by them. And when we consider that every one of the colonies has a body of law of this kind, and that it will take years before those laws can be assimilated, it was felt that at fir.st, at all events, any united legislation would be almost impossible. lam happy to state — and indeed it appears on the face of the resolutions them- selves — that as regards the Lower Pro- vinces, a great desire was evinced for the final assimiladon of our laws. One of the re- solutions provides that an attempt shall be made to assimilate the laws of the Maritime Provinces and those of Upper Canada, for the purpose of eventually estab- lishing one body of statutory law, founded on the common law of England, the parent of the laws of all those provinces. One great ob-
w
jection made to a Federal Union was the ex- pense of an increased number of legislatures. I will not enter at any length into that sub- ject, because my honorable friends, the Fi- nance Minister and the Presidout of the Council, who are infinitely more competent than myself to deal with matters of this kind — matters of account — will, I think, be able to show that the expenses under a Federal Union will not be greater than those under the exist- ing system of separate governments and legis- latures. Here, where we have a joint legislature for Upper and Lower Canada, which deals not only with subjects of a general interest com- mon to all Canada, but with all matters of pri- vate right and of sectional interest, and with that class of measures kuown :u! "private bills," we find that one of the greatest sources of expense to the country is the cost of legislation. We find, from the admix- ture of subjects of a general, with those of a private character in legislation, that they mutually interfere with each other ; whereas, if the attention of the Legislature was confined to measures of one kind or the other alone, the session of Parliament would not be so protracted and therefore not so expensive as at present. In the proposed Constitution all matters of general interest are to be dealt with by the G-eneral Le- g'sluture ; while the local legislatures will deal with matters of local interest, which do not affect the Confederation as a whole, but are of the greatest importance to their particular sections. By such a division of labor the sittings of the General Le- gislature would not be so protracted as even those of Canada alone. And so with the local legislatures, their attention being con- fined to subjects pertaining to their own sections, their sessions would be shorter and less expensive. Then, when wo consider the enormous saving that will be effected in the administration of affairs by one General Government —when we reflect that each of the five colonies have a goveTiment of its own with a -mplete tistablishment of public depart ' nts and all the ma<ihinery required for o transaction (»f the busi- lJ.bs of the country — that each h; voasepar- ^n executive, judicial and militia system — ti'at each province has a .separate min- istry, iiicludiri;^ a .Ministi3r of .Nlilitia, with a complete; \>ljiit;itit (JeiiiTal's DeiartiiKMjt — that each have a Finance Minister with a full ChhIoiij.s and ilx^isc staff - that each Colony ha« m largo and complete an aduiinis-
it'
trative organization, with as many Executive officers as the General Government will have — we can well understand the enormous saving that will result from a union of all the colenies, from their having but one head and one central system We, in Canada, already know something of the advantages and disadvantages of a Federal Union. Although we have nominally a Legislative Union in Canada — although we sit in one Parliament, supposed constitutionally to re- present the people without regard to sections or localities, yet we know, as a matter of fact, that since the union in 1841, we have had a Federal Union ; that in matters affecting Upper Canada solely, members from that section claimed and generally exercised the right of exclusive legislation, while mem- bers from Lower Canada legislated in mat- ters affecting only their owa section. We have had a Federal Union in fact, though a Legislative Union in ua.ne ; and in tha hot contests of late years, if on any occasion a measure affecting any one sec- tion were interfered with by the members from the other — if, for instance, a mea- sure locally affecting Upper t'anada were carried or defeated asrainst the wishes of its majority, by one irom Lower Canada, — my honorable friend the Pres- ident of the Council, and his friends denounced with all their energy and ability such legislation as an infringement of the rights of the Upper Province. (Hear, hear, and cheers). Just in the same way, it" any act concerning Lower Canada were pressed into law against the wishes of the majority of her representatives, by those from Upper Canada, the Lower Canadians would rise as one man and protest against such a violation of their peculiai right>. (Hear, hear.) The relations between E norland and Scotland are very similar to that which ob- tains between the Canadas. The union be- tween them, in matters of legi-slation, is of a federal character, because the Act ot Union between the two countries provides that the Scottish law cann-Jt be altered , except for the manifest ailvautage of the people of Scotland. Tlii.s .stipulation lia.«> been held to be so ()t)ligat.ory on the Legislature of Great liri- tain, that no mcasur ' uffecting the law of Scotl.nd i.H piisst'd unless it receives the sanction (if a majority of the Seottish mem- bers in Parliament. .No matt r how import- ant it may bo for the interests id' the empire as a whuU to alter the luw« of Scotland —no
■U\r
31
matter how much it may interfere with the symmetry of the general law of the United Kingdom, that law is not altered, except with the consent of the Scottish people, as expressed by their representatives iu Par- liament. (Hear, hear.) Thus, we have, in Great Britain, to a limited extent, an ex- ample of the working and effects of a Fed- eral Union, as we might expect to witness them in our own Confederation. The whole scheme of Confederation, as propounded by the Conference, as agreed to and sanctioned by the Canadian Government, and as now presented for the consideration of the people, and the Legislature, bears upon its face the marks of compromise. Of necessity there must have been a great deal of mutual con- cession. When we think of the representa- tives of five colonies, all supposed to have different interests, meeting together, charged with the duty of protecting those interests and of pressing the views of their own locali- ties and sections, it must be admitted that had we not met in a spirit of conciliation, and with an anxious desire to promote this union; if we had not been impressed with the idea contained in the wordg of the resolution — " That the best interests and present and fii- ture prosperity of British North America would be promoted by a Federal Union under the Crown of Great Britain," — all our efforts might have proved to be of no avail. If we had not felt that, after coming to this conclusion, we were bound to set aside our private opinions on matters of detail, if we had not felt ourselves bound to look at what was practicable, not obstinately rejecting the opinions of others nor adhering to our own ; if we had not met, I say, in a spirit of concili- ation, and with an anxious, overruling de- sire to form one people under one government, we never would have succeeded. With these views, we press the question on this Uouse and the country. I say to this House, if you do not believe that the union of the colonies is for the advantage of the country, that the joining of these five peoples into one nation, under one sovereign, is for the benefit of all, then reject the scheme. Reject it if you do not believe it to be for the present advantage and future prosperity of yourselves and your children. But if, after a calm and full con- sideration of this scheme, it is believed, as a whole, to be for the advantage of this pro- vince— if the House and country believe this union to be one which will ensure for us Bri- tish laws, British eonnection, and British
freedom — and increase and develope the so- cial, political and material prosperity of the country, then I implore this House and the country to lay aside all prejudices, and accept the scheme which we offer. I ask this House to meet the question in the same spirit in which the delegates met it. I ask each member of this House to lay aside his own opinions as to particular details, and to accept the scheme as a whole if he think it beneficial as a whole. As I stated in the preliminary discussion, we must consider this scheme in the light of a treaty. By a happy coincidence of circum- stances, just when an Administration had been formed in Canada for the purpose of attempt- ing a solution of the diffijulties under which we laboured, at the same time the Lower Pro- vinces, actuated by a similar feeling, appoint- ted a Conference with a view to a union among themselves, without being cognizant of the position the government was taking in Canada. If it had not been for this fortunate coincidence of events, never, perhaps, for a long series of years would we have been able to bring this scheme to a practical conclusion. But we did succeed. We made the arrange- ment, agreed upon the scheme, and the depu- tations from the several governments repre- sented at the Conference went back pledged to lay it before their governments, and to ask the legislatures and people of their respective provinces to assent to it. I trust the scheme will be assented to as a whole. I am sure this House will not seek to alter it in its unimportant details ; and, if altered in any important provi-^ions, the result must be that the whole will be set aside, and we must begiu de novo. If any important changes are made, every one of the colonies will feel itself absolved from the implied obligation to deal with it as a Treaty, each province will feel itself at liberty to amend it ad libitum so as to suit its own views and interests ; in fact, the whole of our labours will have been for nought, and we will have to renew our negotiations with all the colonies for the purpose of establishing some new scheme. I hope the House will not adopt any such a course as will postpone, perhaps for ever, or at all events for a long period, all chances of union. All the statesmen and public men who have written or spoken on the subject admit the advantages of a union, if it were practicable : and now when it is proved to be practicable, if wo do not em- brace this opportunity the present favor- able time will pass away, and we may never
32
have it again. Because, just so surely as this scheme is defeated, will be revived the original proposition for a union of the Mari- time Provinces, irrespective of Canada ; they will not remain as they are now, powerless, scattered, helpless communities ; they will form themselves into a power, which, though not so strong as if united with Canada, will, nevertheless, be a powerful and considerable community, and it will be then too late for us to attempt to strengthen ourselves by this scheme, which, in the words of the resolution, " is for the best interests, and present and future prosperity of British North America." If we are not blind to our present position, we must see the hazardous situation in which all the great interests of Canada stand in respect to the United States. I am no alarmist. I do not believe in the prospect of immediate war. I believe that the common sense of the two nations will prevent a war ; still we cannot trust to probabilities. The Government and Legislature would be want- ing in tlieir duty to the people if they ran any risk. We know that the United States at this moment are engaged in a war of enormous dimensions — that the occasion of a war with Great Britain has again and again arisen, and may at any time in the fature again arise. We cannot foresee what may be the result ; we cannot say but that the two nations may drift into a war as other nations have done before. It would then be too late when war had commenced to think of measures for strengthening ourselves, or to begin negociations for a union with the sister provinces. At this moment, in con- sequence of the ill-feeling which has arisen between England and the United States — a feeling of which Canada was not the cause — in consequence of the irritation which now exists, owing to the unhappy state of affairs on this continent, the Reciprocity Treaty, it seems probable, is about to be brought to an end — our trade is hampered by the passport system, and at any moment we may bo deprived of permission to carry our goods through United States channels — the bonded goods system may be done away with, and the winter trade through the United States put an end to. Our merchants may be obliged to return to the old system of bringing in during the summer months the supplies fur tbo wliolc year. Ourselves already threat- ened, our trade interruptad, our intercouvHC, political and commercial, destroyed, if we do not taku warning now when we havo the op-
portunity, and while one avenue is threat- ened to be closed, open another by taking ad- vantage of the present arrangement and the desire of the Lower Provinces to draw closer the alliance between us, we itay suffer com- mercial and political disadvantgaes it may take long for us to overcome. Tlie Confer- ence having come to the conclusion that a legislative union, pure and simple, was im- practicable, our next attempt was to form a government upon federal principles, which would jgive to the General Government the strength of a legislative and administrative union, while at the same time it preserved that liberty of action for the different sec- tions which is allowed by a Federal Union. And I am strong in the belief — that we have hit upon the happy medium in those resolutions, and that we have formed a scheme of government which unites the advantages of both, giving us the strength of a legisla- tive union and the sectional freedom of a federal union, with protection to local inter- ests. In doing so wc had the advantap-e of the experience of the United States. It is the fashion now to enlarge on the defects of the Constitution of the United States, but 1 am not one of those who look upon it a.s a failure. ^^Hear, hear.) I think and believe that it is one of the most skillful works which human intelligence ever created ; is one of the most perfect organizations that ever governed a free people. To say that it has some defects ia but to say that it is not the work of Omniscience, but of human in- tellects. We are happily situated in having had the opportunity of watching its ope- ration, seeing its working from its infancy till now. It was in the main formed on the model of the Constitution of Great Britain, adapted to the circumstances of a new coun- try, and was perhaps the only practicable sys- tem that could have been adopted under the circumstances existing at the time of its formation. We can now take advantage of the experience of the last seventy-eight years, during which that Constitution has existed, and I am strongly of the belief that we havo, in a great measure, avoided in this system which wc propose for the adoption of the people of Canada, the defects which time and events havo shown to exist in thcAmer- ioan Constitution. In the first place, by. a resolution which meets with the universal approval of the people of this country, we havo provided that for all time to come, so far as we can legislate for the future, we
35
shall have as the head of the executive pow- er, the Sovereign of Great Britain. (Hear, hear.) No one can look into futurity and say what will be the destiny of this country. Changes come over nations and peoples in the course of ages. But, so far as we can legislate, we provide that, for all time to come, the Sovereign of Great Britain shall be the Sovereign of British North America. By adhering to the monarchical principle, we avoid one defect inherent in the Con- stitution of the United States. By the election of the President by a majority and for a short period, he never is the sovereign and chief of the nation. He is never looked up to by the whole people as the head and front of the nation. He is at best but the successful leader of a party. This defect is all the greater on account of the practice of re-election. During his first term of office, he is employed in taking steps to secure his own re-election, and for his party a continu- ance of power. We avoid this by adhering to the monarchical principle — the Sovereign whom you respect and love. I believe that it is of the utmost importance to have that principle recognized, so that we shall have a Sovereign who is placed above the region cf party— to whom all partiiis look up — who is not elevated by the action of one party nor depressed by the action of an- other, who is the common head and sover- eign of all. (Hear, hear and cheers.) In the Constitution we propose to continue the system of Responsible Government,which has existed in this province since 1841, and which has long obtained in the Mother Country. This is a feature of our Constitu- tion as we have it now, and as we shall have it in the Federation, in which, I think, we avoid one of the great defects in the Consti- tution of the United States. There the Pre- sident, during his term of office, is in a great measure a despot, a one-man power, with the command of the naval and military forces — with an immense amount of patronage as head of the Executive, and with the veto power as a branch of the legislature, perfect- ly uncontrolled by responsible advisers, his cabinet being departmental officers merely, whom he is not obliged by the Constitution to consult with, unless he chooses to do so. With us the Sovereign, or in this country the llepresentative of the Sovereign, can act only on the advice of his ministers, those ministers being responsible to the people through Par- liament. Prior to the formation of the Amer-
6
..— —.■■■■-.■ . ■! I .j.r I I n I I II mtmt . m . — ■ ■ i , irf iMJi ■■«MM«^aijft
ican Union, as we all know, the different states which entered into it were separate col- onies. They had no connection with each other further than that of having a common sovereign, just as with us at present. Their constitutions and their laws were different. They might and did legislate against each other, and when they revolted against the Mother Country they acted as separate sove- reignties, and carried on the war by a kind of treaty of alliance against the common ene- my. Ever since the union was formed the difficulty of what is called " State Rights " has existed, and this had much to do in bringing on tho present unhappy war in the United States. They commenced, in fact, at tho wrong end. They declared by their Con- stitution that each state was a sovereignty in itself, and that all the powers incident to a sovereignty belonged to each state, except those powers which, by the Constitution, were conferred upon the General Govern- ment and Congress. Here wo have adopted a different system. We have strengthened the General Government. We have given the General Legislature all the great subjects of legislation. We have conferred on them, not only specifically and in detail, all the powers which are incident to sovereignty, but we have expressly declared that all subjects of general interest not distinctly and exclusively conferred upon the local governments and local legislatures, shall be conferred upon the General Government and Legislature. — We have thus avoided that great source of weak- ness which has been the cause of the disrup- tion of the United States. We have avoided all conflict of jurisdiction and authority, and if this Constitution is carried out, as it will be in ■'.full detail in the Impei'ial Act to be passed if the colonies adopt the scheme, we will have in fact, as I said before, all the ad- vantages of a legislative union under one ad- ministration, with, at the same time the guar- antees for local institutions and forlocal laws, which are insisted upon by so many in the provinces now, I hope, to be united. I think it is well that, in framing our Constitution — although my honorablo friend the member for Hochelaga (Hon. Mr. Dorion) sneered at it the other day, in the discussion on the Address in reply to tho speech from the Throne — our first act should have been to recognize the sovereignty of Her Majesty. (Hear, hear.) I believe that, while England has no desire to lose her colonies, but wishes to retain them, while I am satisfied that the
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public mind of England would deeply regret the los3 of these provinces — yet, if the peo- ple of British North America after full de- liberation had stated that they considered it was for their interest, for the advantage of the future of British North America to sever the tie, such is the generosity of the people of England, that, whatever their desire to keep these colonies, they would not seek to compel us to remain unwilling subjects of the British Crown. If therefore, at the Confer- ence, we had arrived at the conclusion, that it was for the interest of these provinces that a severance should take place,! am sure that Iler Majesty and the Imperial Parliament would have sanctioned that severance. We accord- ingly felt that there was a propriety in giving a distinct declaration of opinion on that point, and that, in framing the Constitution, its first sentence should declare, that " The Execu tive authority or government shall be vested in the Sovereign ot the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and be adminis- tered according to the well understood prin- ciples of the British Constitution, by the Sovereign personally, or by the Representa- tive of the Sovereign duly authorised." That resolution met with the unanimous assent of the Conference. The desire to remain con- nected with Great Britain and to retain our allegiance to Her Majesty was unanimous. Not a single suggestion was made, that it could, by any possibility, be for the interest of the colonies, or of any section or portion of them, that there should be a severance of our connection. Although we knew it to be possible that Canada, from her position, might be exposed to all the horrors of war, V)y reason of causes of hostility arising between Great Britain and the United States — causes over which we had no control, and which we had no Ijand in bringing about — yet there was a unanimous i'eeling of willingness to run all the hazards of wiir, if war must come, rather than loso the con- nection between the Mother Country and these colonies. (Cheers.) We provide that " the Executive authority shall be ad- ministered by the Sovereign personally, or by the Representative of the Sovereign duly authorized." It is too much to expect that the Queen should vouchsafe us her personal governance or presence, except to pay us, as the heir apparent of the Throne, our future Sovereign has already paid us, the graceful compliment of a visit. The Executive authority must therefore be ad-
ministered by Her Majesty's Represcn* tative. We place no restriction on Her Mrjesty's prerogative in the selection of her representative. As it is' now, so it will bo if this Constitution is adopt- ed. The Sovereign has unrestricted free- dom of choice. Whether in making her selection she may send us one of her own family, a Royal Prince, as a Viceroy to rule over us, or one of the great statesmen of England to represent her, we know not* We leave that to Her Majesty in all confi- dence. But we may be permitted to hope, that when the union takes place, and we become the great country which British North America is certain to be, it will be an object worthy the ambition of the statesmen of England to be charged with presiding over our destinies. (Hear, hear.) Let me now invite the atten- tion of the House to the provisions in the Constitution respecting the legisla- tive power. The sixth resolution says, " There shall be a general legislature or parlia- ment for the federated provinces, composed of a Legislative Council and a House of Com- mons." This resolution has been cavilled at in the English press as if it excluded the Sovereign "as a portion of the legislature. In one sense, that stricture was just — be- cause in strict constitutional language, the legislature of England consists of King, Lords and Commons. But, on the other hand, in ordinary parlance we speak of " the King and his Parliament,'' or ''the King summonipg his I'arlianient," the three estates — Lords spiritual, temporal Lords, and the House of Commons, and I observe that such a writer as Hallam occa- sionally uses the word Parliament in that restricted gonso. At best i^. is merely a verbal critici-sm. The legislature of British North America will be compo.sed of King, Lords, and Commons. The Jjogi- slative Council will stand in the saino relation to the Jiower House, ns tlie House of Lords to tho lloubo of Commons in England, having the same power of initiating all matters of legislation, exeeptthe granting of money. As regards tho Lower House, it may not appear to matter much, whether it is called the House of Commons or lit use of Assembly. It will bear what- ever name tho Parliaiaent of Kii;-land may choose to give it, but " Tho House of Com- mons" is the unnio wo should prefer, a^ shewing that it represeutjj tho Commons of
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Canada, in the same way that the English House of Commons represents the Commons of England, with the same privileges, the game parliamentary usage, and the same parliamentary authority. In settling the constitution of the Lower House, that which peculiarly represents the people, it was agreed that the principle of representation based on population should be adopted, and the mode of applying that principle is fully developed in these resolutions. When I speak of representation by population, the House will of course understand, that univer- sal suifrage is not in an}' wny sanctioned, or admitted by these resolutions, as the basis on which the constitution of the popular branch should rest. In order to protect local interests, and to prevent sectional jealousies, it was found requisite that the three great divisions into which British North America is separated, should be represented in the Upper House on the principle of equality. There are three great sections, having different interests, in this proposed Confederatien. Wc have Western Canada, an agricultural country far away from the sea, and having the largest popu- lation who have agricultural interests prin- cipally to guard. We have Lower Canada, with other and separate interests, and espe- cially with institutions and laws which she jealously guards against absorption by any larger, more numerous, or stronger power. And we have the Maritime Provinces, hav- ing also different sectional interests of their own, having, from their position, classes and interests which we do not know in Western Canada. Accordingly, in the Upper House, — the controlling and regulating, but not the initiating, branch (for we know that here as in Englaiid, to the Lower House will practic- ally belong the initiation of matters of gieat public interest), in the House which has the sober second-thought in legislation — it is provided that each of those great sections shall be represented equally by 24 members. The only exception to that condition of equality is in the case of Newfoundland, which has an interest of its own, lying, as it does, at the mouth of the great river St. Law- rence, and more connected, perhaps, with Canada than with the Lower Provinces. It has, comparatively speaking, no common in- terest with the other Maritime Provinces, but has sectional interests and sectional claims of its own to be protected. It, there- fore has been dealt with separately, and
is to have a separate reprec-entation in the Upper House, thus varying from the equality established between the other sections. — As may be well conceived, great difference of opinion at first existed as to the constitu- tion of the Legislative Council. In Canada the elective principle prevailed ; in the Lower Provinces, with the exception of Prince Edward Island, the nominative prin- ciple was the rule. We found a general disinclination on the part of the Lower Provinces to adopt the elective principle ; indeed, I do not think there was a dissent- ing voice in the Conference against the adop- tion of the nominative principle, except from Prince Edward Island. The delegates from- New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfound- land, as one man, were in favor of nom- ination by the Crown. And nomination by the Crown is of course the system which is most in accordance with the British Con- stitution. We resolved then, that the con- stitution of the Upper House should be in accordance with the British system as nearly as circumstances would allow. An hereditary Upper House is impracticable in this young country. Here we have none of the elements for the formation of a landlord aristocracy — no men of large territorial positions — no class separated from the mass of the people. An hereditary body is altogether unsuited to our state of society, and would soon dwindle into nothing. The only mode of adapting the English system to the Upper House, is by conferring the power of appointment on the Crown (as the English peers are appoint- ed), but that the appointments should be for life. The arguments for an elective Council are numerous and strong; and I ought to say so, as one of the Administration responsible for introducing the elective principle into Canada. (Hear, hear.) I hold that this prin- ciple has not been a failure in Canada; but there were causes — which we did not take into consideration at the time — why it did not so fully succeed in Canada as we had expected. One great cause was the enormous extent of the constituencies and the immense labor which consequently devolved on those who sought the suffrages of the people for election to the Council. For the same reason the expense — (laughter) — the legitimate expense was so enormous that men of stand- ing in the country, eminently fitted for such a position, were preven'ed from coming forward. At first, I admit, men of the first standing did come forward, but wc
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have seen that ia every succeeding election in both Canadas there has been an in- creasing disinclioationj on the part of men of standing and political experience and weight in the country, to become can- didates ; while, on the other hand, all the young men, the active politicians, those who have resolved to embrace the life of a statesman, have sought entrance to the | House ol Assembly. The nominative system in this country, was to a great extent success- ful, before the introduction of responsible government. Then the Canadas were to a great extent Crown colonies, and the upper branch of the legislature consisted of gentle- men chosen from among the chief judicial and ecclesiastical dignitaries, the heads of departments, and other men of the lirst position in the country. Those bodies com- manded great respect from the character, standing, and weight of the individuals com- posing them, but they had little sympathy with the people or their representatives, and co'lisions with the Lower House frequently occurred, especially in Lower Canada. When responsible government was introduced, it became necessary for the Governor of the day to have a body of advisers who had the confidence of the House of Assembly which could make or unmake mioiBtera as it chose. The Lower House in eifect pointed out who should be nominated to the Upper House; for the ministry, being de- pendent altogether on the lower branch of the legislature for support, selected members for the Upper House from among their poli- tical friends at the dictation of the House of Assembly. The Council was becoming less and less a substantial check on the legislation of the Assembly; but under the system now proposed, such will not bo the case. No ministry can in future do what they have done in Canada before, — they cannot, with the view of carrying any measure, or of strengthening the party, attempt to overrule the independent opinion of the Upper House, by filling it with a number of its partisans and political supporters. The provision in / the Constitution, that the Legislative Council shall consist of a limited number of members — that each of the great Hections shall appoint twenty-four members and no more, will prevent the Upper Houst^ irom being swamped from lime to time by the ministry of the day, ft»r the purpose of carrying out their own scliemcH or pleasing their parti- aaoB. The fact of the govcrnmout being
prevented from exceeding a limited number will preserve t'le independence of the Upper House, and make it, in reality, a separate and distinct chamber, having a legitimate and controlling influence in the legislation of the country. The objection has been taken that in consequence of the Crown being deprived of the right of unlimited appointment, there is a chance of a dead lock arising between the two branches of the legislature; a chance that the Upper House being altogether independent of the Sovereign, of the Lower House, and of the advisers of the Crown, may act indepen- dently, and so independently as to produce a dead lock. 1 do not ajticipatc any such result. Ia the first place we know that in England it does not arise. There would be no use of an Upper House, if it did not exercise, when it thought proper, the right of opposing or amending or postponing the legislation of the Lower House. It would be of no value whatever were it a mere chamber for I'cgistering the decrees of the Lower House. It must be an independent House, having a free action of its own, for it is only valuable as being a regulating body, calmly considering the legislation initiated by the popular branch, and preventing any hasty or ill considered legislation whi'^ii may come from that body, but it will never set itself in opposition against the deliberate and understood wishes of the people. Even the House of Lords, which as an hereditary body,